? Regarding CoinFacts price values and auction prices realized.

Nic

I might be missing something with the "new" CoinFacts though I can't figure it out.

Researching a few bust halves that sold in a Stacks Pogue Sale. As an example a coin that realized 129K is pictured, with no auction sale link, and valued at 50K. Does not seem to be a variety issue as I searched them all.

?

amwldcoin

Price Guide Values are all over the place...high and low. Does anyone know a series where price guide truly reflects the actual market price of coins?

Nic

Agree. That's not my point and I should be clearer.

Why aren't the auction prices linked? I thought that values were in part based on such?

Does CoinFacts still include and update all major auction house sales?

ldhair

They removed a lot of images and information a while back. Many were upset and a few were happy about the change.

Nic

This may have something to do with particular sales and monitoring prices realized. I see newer SB auctions linked.

WinLoseWin

@Nic said:
Agree. That's not my point and I should be clearer.

Why aren't the auction prices linked? I thought that values were in part based on such?

Does CoinFacts still include and update all major auction house sales?

Can you give a specific example?

If the coin is the one that set the auction record price and is on the main non-die variety page then the price should be in the table and linked.

However, if it is not the record setter and has a photo as one of the top 3 grades on the main page or is listed below in the census, it might only appear under the die variety page as the Pogue coins were slabbed with the die varieties. In that case you may need to know what the die variety is and go to that page. The main page is usually for those slabbed without the variety on the holder.

It can get a bit confusing as the main page may or may not have the photo and info on those certified showing the die variety on the holder. This same thing happens in early copper and other series that offer die attribution.

If you don't know the variety but know the price, you may be able to find a link to the auction lot by going just to the PCGS auction archives and sorting the price column at https://pcgs.com/auctionprices

If you don't know either it could be tough to find without checking all the variety sub-pages on CoinFacts.

From what I have seen, all of the Pogue sales lots are linked unless there is an error on CoinFacts. Have run across a number of those on various coins.

tradedollarnut

None of the Pogue sale coins are linked. Huge flaw with Coin Facts

WinLoseWin

@tradedollarnut said:
None of the Pogue sale coins are linked. Huge flaw with Coin Facts

.
.
Here is the main page for the 1807 50C Large Stars Half Dollar.

https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1807-50c-large-stars/6088

The MS-66 shown is from the Pogue collection and noted in the Condition Census below the grid. But it is not shown as the auction record holder on this page (which it is) and there is no prices realized for the Pogue sale in the grid. This page is apparently only showing prices for those coins certified that DON'T show the die variety on the holder.

When you go to the "Show Related Coins and Varieties (5)" just above the grid and click "1807 50C O-114 Lg Stars Capped Bust" it takes you to the variety page which does show it as the record holder and has the auction price in the grid.

That page is here: https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1807-50c-o-114-lg-stars-capped-bust/39361

Clicking on either price link goes to an "Item Detail" page under the PCGS "Auction Prices" section. Just under the title of the item is a link labeled "Original Lot at Stack's Bowers". Clicking that link goes direct to the lot on Stack's Bowers which for this coin is:

https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/1-1A47S/1807-capped-bust-half-dollar-overton-114-rarity-3-large-stars-mint-state-66-pcgs

Any Pogue coins that were slabbed with the die varieties on the label should be found on the variety page. They might not show up on the main page unless it is one of the top 3 grades with a photo or in the condition census below the grid and still likely won't have a clickable auction price link except on the variety page. This seems to be the case with any coin from any source that is attributed by die variety on the label.

.
.

winesteven

@Nic said:
Does CoinFacts still include and update all major auction house sales?

For sure, most if not all Great Collections sales are NOT reflected in either CoinFacts or NGC US Auction Central, based on GC's business decision. As such, since those missing sales do indeed provide valid sales data, it behooves each of us doing pricing research to also go directly to the GC website to look at THEIR Coin Auction Archive!

Nic

Thank you for your replies WinLoseWin. Found it.

1807 50/20 LS. The 1807's have four major types. Seems the 50/20 now has four subtypes or varietes. I missed one of them. Few listed and few care it seems. One of the subtypes sold for 129K yet the major issue/type/ variety in the same grade is valued at 50K.

Reminds me of a Gardner pop 1 seated half, that is also listed only as a minor variety, that few are aware of or collect.

A CoinFacts flaw for sure.

Appreciate your help.

WinLoseWin

Yes, it would be good if CoinFacts could show the auction sale prices for a specific coin under both the main page and the variety page when it is in a holder with the variety.

Seems there would be a way to do that and maybe they will in the future. For now some can be hard to find and may not show up for comparison with those not attributed on the holder. The varieties have a different PCGS number code than those without and seem to automatically get sorted by that.

It can also create misleading population numbers. Recall seeing something in an auction recently that noted the total only for those designated with the variety (a not particularly tough variety), where as there were many more of the main date. Made it look scarcer than it was. Also saw this on a coin that was not slabbed with the variety but the auction company used the die variety population numbers rather than the main date.

Collect4fun

@winesteven said:

@Nic said:
Does CoinFacts still include and update all major auction house sales?

For sure, most if not all Great Collections sales are NOT reflected in either CoinFacts or NGC US Auction Central, based on GC's business decision. As such, since those missing sales do indeed provide valid sales data, it behooves each of us doing pricing research to also go directly to the GC website to look at THEIR Coin Auction Archive!

Can you expand on that decision by GC?

winesteven

I don’t know the title of the thread, but several months ago I remember reading a post or reply from Ian, where he explained they made a business decision to not share/allow the use of most of their sales data. He explained that this way people will have to go to the GC cite to research that data. FYI, when you research their pricing, and look at sales of a particular date, if they have a coin in their current auction of that date and grade, it shows up to the right of the auction pricing data. As such, his decision is understandable.

Nic

Revival for @tradedollarnut re CoinFacts and Pogue/ auctions.