Thank you for asking ........ they are exactly where they were last year For many good reasons coins came down to 7th on my prio list but been having a blast on whatever I do
However ..... I will try to rekindle it after Valentine's day.
@mr1874 said:
btw, Paradise, how's your Peace Dollar collection coming along?
@1northcoin said:
Looking forward to the eventual photos of the Monarchs when they take flight.
An added bright one that is coin related:
Thanks Paradise. If interested, here are some details about the pictured coin:
The attribution as provided by firstmint with regard to my 1850 Double Eagle:
"That is certainly a distinctive coin. However, in 1949, when Max Mehl catalogued it, he disagreed with the Proof designation.
Mehl had numerous real twenty dollar proofs (from 1871 to 1907) in the same sale to compare this item with, including a 1904, that Green purchased as a Proof, that Mehl correctly catalogued as "brilliant uncirculated with proof surface".
To have this in a TPG holder now, and labeled as a Proof (according to Breen) is a real misnomer. There is no evidence there were any ever presented as special pieces.
IMO, the coin is a first strike from the regular production dies, that happened to get saved and ended up in numismatic channels.
That would be the real story behind this nice coin.
Edited to add the rest of the story -
After doing some quick research and looking for an answer to the reason for such a coin being saved, I uncovered the original appearance for this particular coin.
It came from the James B. Longacre estate (the coin's designer), and was sold in the January 21, 1870 auction sale conducted by
M(oses) Thomas & Sons in Philadelphia. It was lot #178.
The lot description was: "1850, Double Eagle, proof. This piece was from the first dies used for the double eagle, and might be termed a trial piece."
There were also three 1848 CAL Quarter Eagles listed as being proof. However, most everything in the past that was prooflike has been catalogued and sold as a proof, even though that is not the case.
I believe the J B Longacre pedigree (as a first strike) is much more significant than the C W Green listing as a proof w/ enhanced surfaces."
In response to firstmint's attribution, numisma of O.C. Rare Coin & Bullion added:
"I believe the J B Longacre pedigree (as a first strike) is much more significant than the C W Green listing as a proof w/ enhanced surfaces.
I agree. That is an important fact that you provided northcoin and can only add to the allure and historical significance of the piece (as well as the value). Nice work firstmint! This is proof that it pays to have an extensive library.
In today's fast pace numismatic world coins are traded quickly and often. As such, provenance and other historical facts associated with the coins tend to get lost in the transactions, which is regretful. "
The following may also be if interest to anyone who has read this far with regard to my 1850 Double Eagle:
As noted on the holder, it once belonged to C.W. Green. Interestingly in reading Breen's book cataloging gold proofs I came across a reference by Breen to the very coin. He noted that there were possibly several Presentation Pieces a/k/a proofs made of the first $20 gold piece available for circulation in 1850. He went on to note that Green was reported to have one, but that he had never seen it himself. In addition, the coin is featured on CoinFacts.com as its first described "Significant example" of the 1850 Double Eagle, and CoinFacts further notes under Mintage, "Proofs: Unique?"
An added personal footnote to the story. When David Bowers was compiling his book on Double Eagles I afforded him an opportunity to view the coin and to my surprise he kindly added my name to the credits for sharing the coin. ) At the time David Bowers was compiling his book on Double Eagles the coin's earlier auction history and connection to Longacre's personal collection, as above described, had not yet been learned.
In addition, here is the above referenced "Coin Facts" description of the coin and its more recent auction history:
Significant examples:
SEGS Proof-62, "Presentation/PL, enhanced surfaces". Ex - Superior Galleries' "Pre-Long Beach Sale" May 27-29, 2001, Lot 4170A, where it was described as follows: "1850 SEGS graded Proof 62 marked "Presentation/PL" and " Enhanced Surfaces". The coin is also pedigreed to Dr. C. W. Green and so noted on the holder. This is the first collectible issue of the United States Double Eagle series. This coin has a beautiful bold strike with full stars and all other details sharp and clear. The fields are Prooflike and you can see clearly with magnification that the dies and planchet were enhanced prior to striking..."
"Enhanced Surfaces" sounds like "numismatic double speak" to me.
Frankly, I'm tired of seeing this "Proof" coin pop up every-so-often. So here is a request for @1northcoin. Please send the coin to me to examine. I'll pay your postage both ways as I wish to record its diagnostics. I'll communicate my findings only to @1northcoin in a PM.
PS I'll sweeten the pot and send you an additional $50 so you can get the coin in a proper slab from our host!
Avoiding heading off onto a tangent on this thread, for those few likely even interested, there are some added details set forth in the below linked thread (particularly as to the general subject of "Proof" 1850 Double Eagles) as a consequence of Roger Burdette's. impressive research.
Of relevance with regard to my above pictured subject 1850 the posts include Max Mehl's auction description as identified by forum member Yosclimber.
@Paradisefound said:
Thank you for asking ........ they are exactly where they were last year For many good reasons coins came down to 7th on my prio list but been having a blast on whatever I do
However ..... I will try to rekindle it after Valentine's day.
@mr1874 said:
btw, Paradise, how's your Peace Dollar collection coming along?
Your a Gem and all your stuff looks fabulous. @mr1874 thanks for the posting
Great Britain 1736 Jernegan Cistern Silver Medal, Betts-169, Eimer-537, AU58 PCGS. 39 mm, 20.5 gm. Struck in silver. Obv. Minerva standing between military trophies and emblems of the Arts and Sciences. BOTH HANDS FILL'D FOR BRITAIN around. GEORGE REIGNING in exergue. Rev. Caroline, royally robed, waters a stand of young palm-trees. GROWING ARTS ADORN EMPIRE around, in exergue CAROLINE PROTECTING 1736.
Although the Jernegan Cistern medal is listed in the C. Wyllys Betts' seminal volume American Colonial History as Illustrated by Contemporary Medals, any relation to American history is tangential at best. Some took the palm trees and Caroline to be a reference to the Carolinas, although Betts himself disclaimed any more-direct association with America. (Betts points to the 1863 cataloguing of the Lilliendahl Collection by W.H. Strobridge as a source of the misinterpretation.) The medals were struck as "tickets" for a lottery to win a giant silver urn or cistern made by London goldsmith and banker Henry Jernegan.
Comments
Happy Belated Birthday!!!
May you have many more!!!
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
From me also, PF!
Pete
a 2013 Belarus 10 coin 'beauty of flowers' set
May you enjoy the Bestest,Brightest,Brilliant,Booming,and Blessed Birthday.
Hauʻoli Lā Hānau and a hello to Mango too. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
I opened up that 25th anniversary set and ....
... started wondering who on the BST I bought this from back then.
I want my money back. LOL.
HBD.
Belated Happy Birthday, and Best Wishes for Many More Happy and Healthy Birthdays!!!
U.S. Type Set
Many happy returns Paradise !
No photo I could post would shine as bright as the kind words you always have for everyone.
Happy Birthday !!!
images from @Timbuk3
Wow!
Hope this one is bright enough
Happy Birthday my sweet Paradise!
A penny for your enjoyment on your birthday and birthdays to come, fair lady...
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Looks like from die #4
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
btw, Paradise, how's your Peace Dollar collection coming along?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Thank you for asking ........ they are exactly where they were last year For many good reasons coins came down to 7th on my prio list but been having a blast on whatever I do
However ..... I will try to rekindle it after Valentine's day.
Oh one more thing @mr1874 ...... I've been collecting Monarch butterfly eggs around the yard and assisting them on their metamorphosis journey
Cheers!
Looking forward to the eventual photos of the Monarchs when they take flight.
An added bright one that is coin related:
Thanks Paradise. If interested, here are some details about the pictured coin:
The attribution as provided by firstmint with regard to my 1850 Double Eagle:
"That is certainly a distinctive coin. However, in 1949, when Max Mehl catalogued it, he disagreed with the Proof designation.
Mehl had numerous real twenty dollar proofs (from 1871 to 1907) in the same sale to compare this item with, including a 1904, that Green purchased as a Proof, that Mehl correctly catalogued as "brilliant uncirculated with proof surface".
To have this in a TPG holder now, and labeled as a Proof (according to Breen) is a real misnomer. There is no evidence there were any ever presented as special pieces.
IMO, the coin is a first strike from the regular production dies, that happened to get saved and ended up in numismatic channels.
That would be the real story behind this nice coin.
Edited to add the rest of the story -
After doing some quick research and looking for an answer to the reason for such a coin being saved, I uncovered the original appearance for this particular coin.
It came from the James B. Longacre estate (the coin's designer), and was sold in the January 21, 1870 auction sale conducted by
M(oses) Thomas & Sons in Philadelphia. It was lot #178.
The lot description was: "1850, Double Eagle, proof. This piece was from the first dies used for the double eagle, and might be termed a trial piece."
There were also three 1848 CAL Quarter Eagles listed as being proof. However, most everything in the past that was prooflike has been catalogued and sold as a proof, even though that is not the case.
I believe the J B Longacre pedigree (as a first strike) is much more significant than the C W Green listing as a proof w/ enhanced surfaces."
In response to firstmint's attribution, numisma of O.C. Rare Coin & Bullion added:
"I believe the J B Longacre pedigree (as a first strike) is much more significant than the C W Green listing as a proof w/ enhanced surfaces.
I agree. That is an important fact that you provided northcoin and can only add to the allure and historical significance of the piece (as well as the value). Nice work firstmint! This is proof that it pays to have an extensive library.
In today's fast pace numismatic world coins are traded quickly and often. As such, provenance and other historical facts associated with the coins tend to get lost in the transactions, which is regretful. "
The following may also be if interest to anyone who has read this far with regard to my 1850 Double Eagle:
As noted on the holder, it once belonged to C.W. Green. Interestingly in reading Breen's book cataloging gold proofs I came across a reference by Breen to the very coin. He noted that there were possibly several Presentation Pieces a/k/a proofs made of the first $20 gold piece available for circulation in 1850. He went on to note that Green was reported to have one, but that he had never seen it himself. In addition, the coin is featured on CoinFacts.com as its first described "Significant example" of the 1850 Double Eagle, and CoinFacts further notes under Mintage, "Proofs: Unique?"
An added personal footnote to the story. When David Bowers was compiling his book on Double Eagles I afforded him an opportunity to view the coin and to my surprise he kindly added my name to the credits for sharing the coin. ) At the time David Bowers was compiling his book on Double Eagles the coin's earlier auction history and connection to Longacre's personal collection, as above described, had not yet been learned.
In addition, here is the above referenced "Coin Facts" description of the coin and its more recent auction history:
Significant examples:
SEGS Proof-62, "Presentation/PL, enhanced surfaces". Ex - Superior Galleries' "Pre-Long Beach Sale" May 27-29, 2001, Lot 4170A, where it was described as follows: "1850 SEGS graded Proof 62 marked "Presentation/PL" and " Enhanced Surfaces". The coin is also pedigreed to Dr. C. W. Green and so noted on the holder. This is the first collectible issue of the United States Double Eagle series. This coin has a beautiful bold strike with full stars and all other details sharp and clear. The fields are Prooflike and you can see clearly with magnification that the dies and planchet were enhanced prior to striking..."
"Enhanced Surfaces" sounds like "numismatic double speak" to me.
Frankly, I'm tired of seeing this "Proof" coin pop up every-so-often. So here is a request for @1northcoin. Please send the coin to me to examine. I'll pay your postage both ways as I wish to record its diagnostics. I'll communicate my findings only to @1northcoin in a PM.
PS I'll sweeten the pot and send you an additional $50 so you can get the coin in a proper slab from our host!
I'm not holding my breath.
Avoiding heading off onto a tangent on this thread, for those few likely even interested, there are some added details set forth in the below linked thread (particularly as to the general subject of "Proof" 1850 Double Eagles) as a consequence of Roger Burdette's. impressive research.
Of relevance with regard to my above pictured subject 1850 the posts include Max Mehl's auction description as identified by forum member Yosclimber.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11974543#Comment_11974543
Your a Gem and all your stuff looks fabulous.
@mr1874 thanks for the posting
Here is picture for @Paradisefound
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Happy Birthday!!!!
Hint, hint...
Hint, hint... Go go
I'ts all I got, hope it brightens up your day.
Happy Belated...last in a great lineup...
(not my coins)
Great Britain 1736 Jernegan Cistern Silver Medal, Betts-169, Eimer-537, AU58 PCGS. 39 mm, 20.5 gm. Struck in silver. Obv. Minerva standing between military trophies and emblems of the Arts and Sciences. BOTH HANDS FILL'D FOR BRITAIN around. GEORGE REIGNING in exergue. Rev. Caroline, royally robed, waters a stand of young palm-trees. GROWING ARTS ADORN EMPIRE around, in exergue CAROLINE PROTECTING 1736.
Although the Jernegan Cistern medal is listed in the C. Wyllys Betts' seminal volume American Colonial History as Illustrated by Contemporary Medals, any relation to American history is tangential at best. Some took the palm trees and Caroline to be a reference to the Carolinas, although Betts himself disclaimed any more-direct association with America. (Betts points to the 1863 cataloguing of the Lilliendahl Collection by W.H. Strobridge as a source of the misinterpretation.) The medals were struck as "tickets" for a lottery to win a giant silver urn or cistern made by London goldsmith and banker Henry Jernegan.
And Happy Birthday @Paradisefound !