@Cougar1978 said:
Returns are a reality of life on eBay. Having to deal with a return has been infrequent w me but happens. Just deal with it.
I once had an envelope with a return inside from an attorneys office with my package inside opened and marked “returns.” No email from the buyer no nothing. I promptly refunded and blocked him. Was the guy a picky buyer or was this some estate being handled? Don’t know. Obviously there were a lot of items being returned. Was he a crackout artist fishing?
What really burns me up is the lack of frank communication. And it strikes me as particularly cowardly for people to hide behind being a "lawyer" as if they know how to make your life difficult if you don't accede to their will. I had a situation like that, bending over backwards to serve a customer who sent me a bill deducting on work I did with his "attorney at law" envelope, intimidating.
I have an ebay customer that their trust department was able to prevent from buying anymore due to bad buyer practices. It took a while to get through but hopefully the efforts will help other sellers not get ripped off by deadbeats.
@JBK said:
If I understand it, if the buyer returns for a reason other than SNAD, they pay the return postage...
Not necessarily. If the seller offers free returns, return postage is on the seller.
Yes, that makes sense.
But if a seller offers free returns then I don't know why they'd be upset if a buyer took advantage of that opportunity.
If a seller offers free returns in order to get reduced fees from ebay, then they have benefitted from that side of the equation along the way.
I don't get upset. I refund the money and then block the buyer. Unless I had made an error.
One does not benefit from the Ebay discount as much as hang on.
FVF on a $2000 coin was $40 when Ebay advertised themselves as a level playing field. Same sale today would carry a $123 fee before the discount and about $110 after the so called benefit.
@JBK said:
If I understand it, if the buyer returns for a reason other than SNAD, they pay the return postage...
Not necessarily. If the seller offers free returns, return postage is on the seller.
Yes, that makes sense.
But if a seller offers free returns then I don't know why they'd be upset if a buyer took advantage of that opportunity.
If a seller offers free returns in order to get reduced fees from ebay, then they have benefitted from that side of the equation along the way.
I don't get upset. I refund the money and then block the buyer. Unless I had made an error.
One does not benefit from the Ebay discount as much as hang on.
FVF on a $2000 coin was $40 when Ebay advertised themselves as a level playing field. Same sale today would carry a $123 fee before the discount and about $110 after the so called benefit.
again, this is pure business ignorance. You don't look at the fee benefit relative to the one coin returned unless you have 100% returns. You have to consider the $13 benefit on the 99 coins that were not returned. The benefit paid for the cost of that return 10 times over.
@Outhaul said:
ebay is no longer an auction site. It's a store with return privileges.
Your offerings are "on approval."
That's true of all retail sites. Probably even major auction companies. Had anyone filed a chargeback against heritage or stack's?
Filing a chargeback against either of those firms will likely get you banned for life. Heritage and Stack's auctions are definitely not approval sales.
@JBK said:
If I understand it, if the buyer returns for a reason other than SNAD, they pay the return postage...
Not necessarily. If the seller offers free returns, return postage is on the seller.
Yes, that makes sense.
But if a seller offers free returns then I don't know why they'd be upset if a buyer took advantage of that opportunity.
If a seller offers free returns in order to get reduced fees from ebay, then they have benefitted from that side of the equation along the way.
I don't get upset. I refund the money and then block the buyer. Unless I had made an error.
One does not benefit from the Ebay discount as much as hang on.
FVF on a $2000 coin was $40 when Ebay advertised themselves as a level playing field. Same sale today would carry a $123 fee before the discount and about $110 after the so called benefit.
again, this is pure business ignorance. You don't look away the fee benefit on the one coin returned unless you have 100% returns. You have to consider the $13 benefit on the 99 coins that were not returned. The benefit paid for the cost of that return 10 times over.
Do you read the responses before churning out responses.
The buyer gets a prompt refund with a smile. He also becomes a liability as returning coins is often a pattern. Low margins do not afford Neiman Marcus type amenities, so the buyer is blocked. Again if I made an error, then no problem.
@JBK said:
If I understand it, if the buyer returns for a reason other than SNAD, they pay the return postage...
Not necessarily. If the seller offers free returns, return postage is on the seller.
Yes, that makes sense.
But if a seller offers free returns then I don't know why they'd be upset if a buyer took advantage of that opportunity.
If a seller offers free returns in order to get reduced fees from ebay, then they have benefitted from that side of the equation along the way.
I don't get upset. I refund the money and then block the buyer. Unless I had made an error.
One does not benefit from the Ebay discount as much as hang on.
FVF on a $2000 coin was $40 when Ebay advertised themselves as a level playing field. Same sale today would carry a $123 fee before the discount and about $110 after the so called benefit.
again, this is pure business ignorance. You don't look away the fee benefit on the one coin returned unless you have 100% returns. You have to consider the $13 benefit on the 99 coins that were not returned. The benefit paid for the cost of that return 10 times over.
Do you read the responses before churning out responses.
The buyer gets a prompt refund with a smile. He also becomes a liability as returning coins is often a pattern. Low margins do not afford Neiman Marcus type amenities, so the buyer is blocked. Again if I made an error, then no problem.
My response was directly to your claim that the ebay discount was not worth it. The example you use is the $13 difference on the returned coin.
@JBK said:
If I understand it, if the buyer returns for a reason other than SNAD, they pay the return postage...
Not necessarily. If the seller offers free returns, return postage is on the seller.
Yes, that makes sense.
But if a seller offers free returns then I don't know why they'd be upset if a buyer took advantage of that opportunity.
If a seller offers free returns in order to get reduced fees from ebay, then they have benefitted from that side of the equation along the way.
I don't get upset. I refund the money and then block the buyer. Unless I had made an error.
One does not benefit from the Ebay discount as much as hang on.
FVF on a $2000 coin was $40 when Ebay advertised themselves as a level playing field. Same sale today would carry a $123 fee before the discount and about $110 after the so called benefit.
again, this is pure business ignorance. You don't look away the fee benefit on the one coin returned unless you have 100% returns. You have to consider the $13 benefit on the 99 coins that were not returned. The benefit paid for the cost of that return 10 times over.
Do you read the responses before churning out responses.
The buyer gets a prompt refund with a smile. He also becomes a liability as returning coins is often a pattern. Low margins do not afford Neiman Marcus type amenities, so the buyer is blocked. Again if I made an error, then no problem.
My response was directly to your claim that the ebay discount was not worth it. The example you use is the $13 difference on the returned coin.
Do you not read your own posts?
I was demonstrating that the "so called benefit" was a a minimal carrot in contrast to the tripling of Ebay final value fees.
Is it worth it? I am reconsidering that now that Paypal no longer refunds their fee.
There is no stock answer as much depends on the profit margin and cost of shipping relative to merchandise value.
I have employed the strategy of one and done as the cost of returns has certainly become significantly higher.
I reluctantly returned a ms63 DMPL Morgan last year because it had too much "Chatter" and looked too "Foggy" in the mirrors for my taste. I would much rather have kept it had it had eye appeal I could appreciate long term. Upon returning the coin, I communicated with the seller, had a good chat and paid the return postage. Prior to my next purchase, I messaged the seller first and got a good description of the coin which he thought was an under grade.
Being reassured, I purchased the coin and am very pleased with "The Under Grade"! I think buyers should have the right to returns when they are unhappy with the merchandise. Imagine if that were not the case, ebay would lose a
lot of business imo. Ebay wanted a written reason why I wanted a return after I checked "Just Didn't Like It". Pictured is the Morgan.
Wow that looks like a generous grade. Cheeks look like they took shrapnel. Good call on the return
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I reluctantly returned a ms63 DMPL Morgan last year because it had too much "Chatter" and looked too "Foggy" in the mirrors for my taste. I would much rather have kept it had it had eye appeal I could appreciate long term. Upon returning the coin, I communicated with the seller, had a good chat and paid the return postage. Prior to my next purchase, I messaged the seller first and got a good description of the coin which he thought was an under grade.
Being reassured, I purchased the coin and am very pleased with "The Under Grade"! I think buyers should have the right to returns when they are unhappy with the merchandise. Imagine if that were not the case, ebay would lose a
lot of business imo. Ebay wanted a written reason why I wanted a return after I checked "Just Didn't Like It". Pictured is the Morgan.
under current PayPal terms, the seller has to eat 3% on the return. It's not that seller's don't think buyer's should have a right of return. There is a cost associated with it. The cost is minimal when I'm running about 2 returns per 1000 transactions. But I can't risk having one of those people - and they do exist - that are returning 10 or 20%. So, if you return the 10th coin you buy from me, no big deal. If you return the 1st coin, you're blocked.
Seems that a fair solution would be that the buyer covers return shipping as well as the lost 3% paypal fee.
Not sure who at Ebay thought sellers eating two way shipping if the customer simply didn't like it was a good idea.
They freely and easily hand out money that isn't there.
Commencents Morgan is a bit choppy but appears to have nice mirrors and a nice reverse. I would have no problem offering that coin on Ebay and it is worth a bit over a hundred bucks. Modest for a DMPL coin.
Good of the buyer to cover the return shipping, Otherwise seller gets hit for probably $8 on shipping and $4 for paypal. Not a game changer, but a notable 10% penalty for offering an approval service on PCGS graded coins.
@Coinstartled said:
Seems that a fair solution would be that the buyer covers return shipping as well as the lost 3% paypal fee.
Came across this in a listing under the "Shipping and Payments" tab:
Seller's payment instructions:
Paypal no longer refunds it 2.9% paypal fee to sellers when a paypal paid item is returned to the seller. For this reason any refund will be reduced by the 2.9% paypal fee that we will still be charged to process your initial payment to us.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I think that is fair however that seller will likely get dinged in feedback and not sure ebay would let that fly
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
@Coinstartled said:
Seems that a fair solution would be that the buyer covers return shipping as well as the lost 3% paypal fee.
Not sure who at Ebay thought sellers eating two way shipping if the customer simply didn't like it was a good idea.
They freely and easily hand out money that isn't there.
Commencents Morgan is a bit choppy but appears to have nice mirrors and a nice reverse. I would have no problem offering that coin on Ebay and it is worth a bit over a hundred bucks. Modest for a DMPL coin.
Good of the buyer to cover the return shipping, Otherwise seller gets hit for probably $8 on shipping and $4 for paypal. Not a game changer, but a notable 10% penalty for offering an approval service on PCGS graded coins.
It is simply the retail standard. Amazon is really the one that created it. Amazon, who will also ban SELLERS if they get too many returns. Amazon who basically forced all internet retailers to offer free shipping as well as free return shipping and no restocking fees. Y'know, the Amazon that you adore.
In the end, the consumer pays more. And in this particular case, an ounce of gold has gone up over $50 since buyer purchased the item. One cannot fix stupid.
But AMZN has invested heavily in inventory and warehouses and transportation.
They would be viable as a stand alone without third party vendors.
Meanwhile Ebay has sat on their butt for over a decade depending on individuals like us to provide merchandise and arrange transport. Their last really good move was acquiring and integrating Paypal which gave them control over the payment processing giant. They spun them off.
@Coinstartled said:
But AMZN has invested heavily in inventory and warehouses and transportation.
They would be viable as a stand alone without third party vendors.
Meanwhile Ebay has sat on their butt for over a decade depending on individuals like us to provide merchandise and arrange transport. Their last really good move was acquiring and integrating Paypal which gave them control over the payment processing giant. They spun them off.
Who wins?
It doesn't matter who's doing the "vending". When the industry standard is free shipping and free returns, you have no choice but to offer the same thing.
I don't think it's fair on auctions , starting at $.99 ...especially with the volatility , as. such, in the market. 30 days return privileges are mandated to maintain a certain level and performance standards.
It's all good. It's gold.
Luckily, you are on the winning side of the volatility on this one.
@Coinstartled said:
But AMZN has invested heavily in inventory and warehouses and transportation.
They would be viable as a stand alone without third party vendors.
Meanwhile Ebay has sat on their butt for over a decade depending on individuals like us to provide merchandise and arrange transport. Their last really good move was acquiring and integrating Paypal which gave them control over the payment processing giant. They spun them off.
Who wins?
It doesn't matter who's doing the "vending". When the industry standard is free shipping and free returns, you have no choice but to offer the same thing.
We can dissect this 1000 ways. Reality is that in slabbed rare coins, the Sunday action that was on Ebay, is now at Great Collections. Why is that? Well for the non professional seller, they can mail of their coins to GC and for the same cost or less, have Ian and his quality group do all of the work, not have to worry about return shipping or Paypal deductions in the event that a coin of theirs is returned to GC. That is largely true for the professional seller as well that favors the action route.
We have seen several threads here recently regarding dissatisfaction with Ebay. Few or none with people unhappy with Great Collections.
Sure that is only one category, but ask the folks peddling clothes and artwork and general merchandise on the site and mot have either departed or are looking for other avenues.
I offer returns. As a buyer I generally back off from someone who does not. Based on my experience of an incident where a $129 Mrr loco did not run eBay will force the issue for you if a seller refuses a return.
Returns are very infrequent on my sales. Unless otherwise stated the item I ship them is the exact item in the picture. I do expect the buyer pay return shipping. Once coin received back a refund is issued.
I have a couple of fav sellers I deal with where I know I will get the exact item pictured.
You never know when a buyer may return something. The higher ticket the item the likelihood of a return increases. Bigger ticket items like $20 DE where especially it takes tight spread move them I do at shows only.
It costs me about 12 pct variable sell expense or more operate on bay - shipping, store subscr, seller fees, PayPal. This does not include packaging supplies, reference books, subscriptions, other sch c exp of business. Shows I have a fixed cost hole (table fee, travel, lodging, meals) I may or may not be able to clear net profit wise.
@Coinstartled said:
I have stated and repeat that I am no fan of Amazon. They are ruthless as Wal-mart was and still is. Ebay is inept.
The first two will be the survivors.
The Standard Oils of the retail trade.
Much better prices and variety for coins on Ebay than big A. Surprised at how many coins Walmart has for sale but
again, Ebay has em beat. BTW, had heating oil delivered today, already jumped up by 4c p/gal for tomorrow. Should
have bought last Friday, lol.
I recently returned a coin to a seller that I have dome repeat business with. I hated doing it, but it was a toned gold coin, and it did not NEARLY have as much toning as the pictures made it seem, so it was not worth the premium I had paid. Thankfully they had no issues with me returning it, and I still plan on buying more from them in the future.
Comments
It goes with the territory fwiw
What really burns me up is the lack of frank communication. And it strikes me as particularly cowardly for people to hide behind being a "lawyer" as if they know how to make your life difficult if you don't accede to their will. I had a situation like that, bending over backwards to serve a customer who sent me a bill deducting on work I did with his "attorney at law" envelope, intimidating.
I have an ebay customer that their trust department was able to prevent from buying anymore due to bad buyer practices. It took a while to get through but hopefully the efforts will help other sellers not get ripped off by deadbeats.
I don't get upset. I refund the money and then block the buyer. Unless I had made an error.
One does not benefit from the Ebay discount as much as hang on.
FVF on a $2000 coin was $40 when Ebay advertised themselves as a level playing field. Same sale today would carry a $123 fee before the discount and about $110 after the so called benefit.
ebay is no longer an auction site. It's a store with return privileges.
Your offerings are "on approval."
again, this is pure business ignorance. You don't look at the fee benefit relative to the one coin returned unless you have 100% returns. You have to consider the $13 benefit on the 99 coins that were not returned. The benefit paid for the cost of that return 10 times over.
That's true of all retail sites. Probably even major auction companies. Had anyone filed a chargeback against heritage or stack's?
I> @jmlanzaf said:
Filing a chargeback against either of those firms will likely get you banned for life. Heritage and Stack's auctions are definitely not approval sales.
Do you read the responses before churning out responses.
The buyer gets a prompt refund with a smile. He also becomes a liability as returning coins is often a pattern. Low margins do not afford Neiman Marcus type amenities, so the buyer is blocked. Again if I made an error, then no problem.
My response was directly to your claim that the ebay discount was not worth it. The example you use is the $13 difference on the returned coin.
Do you not read your own posts?
even the auctions that start at 99cents
I was demonstrating that the "so called benefit" was a a minimal carrot in contrast to the tripling of Ebay final value fees.
Is it worth it? I am reconsidering that now that Paypal no longer refunds their fee.
There is no stock answer as much depends on the profit margin and cost of shipping relative to merchandise value.
I have employed the strategy of one and done as the cost of returns has certainly become significantly higher.
I reluctantly returned a ms63 DMPL Morgan last year because it had too much "Chatter" and looked too "Foggy" in the mirrors for my taste. I would much rather have kept it had it had eye appeal I could appreciate long term. Upon returning the coin, I communicated with the seller, had a good chat and paid the return postage. Prior to my next purchase, I messaged the seller first and got a good description of the coin which he thought was an under grade.
Being reassured, I purchased the coin and am very pleased with "The Under Grade"! I think buyers should have the right to returns when they are unhappy with the merchandise. Imagine if that were not the case, ebay would lose a
lot of business imo. Ebay wanted a written reason why I wanted a return after I checked "Just Didn't Like It". Pictured is the Morgan.
Wow that looks like a generous grade. Cheeks look like they took shrapnel. Good call on the return
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
under current PayPal terms, the seller has to eat 3% on the return. It's not that seller's don't think buyer's should have a right of return. There is a cost associated with it. The cost is minimal when I'm running about 2 returns per 1000 transactions. But I can't risk having one of those people - and they do exist - that are returning 10 or 20%. So, if you return the 10th coin you buy from me, no big deal. If you return the 1st coin, you're blocked.
Seems that a fair solution would be that the buyer covers return shipping as well as the lost 3% paypal fee.
Not sure who at Ebay thought sellers eating two way shipping if the customer simply didn't like it was a good idea.
They freely and easily hand out money that isn't there.
Commencents Morgan is a bit choppy but appears to have nice mirrors and a nice reverse. I would have no problem offering that coin on Ebay and it is worth a bit over a hundred bucks. Modest for a DMPL coin.
Good of the buyer to cover the return shipping, Otherwise seller gets hit for probably $8 on shipping and $4 for paypal. Not a game changer, but a notable 10% penalty for offering an approval service on PCGS graded coins.
Came across this in a listing under the "Shipping and Payments" tab:
Seller's payment instructions:
Paypal no longer refunds it 2.9% paypal fee to sellers when a paypal paid item is returned to the seller. For this reason any refund will be reduced by the 2.9% paypal fee that we will still be charged to process your initial payment to us.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I think that is fair however that seller will likely get dinged in feedback and not sure ebay would let that fly
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
It is simply the retail standard. Amazon is really the one that created it. Amazon, who will also ban SELLERS if they get too many returns. Amazon who basically forced all internet retailers to offer free shipping as well as free return shipping and no restocking fees. Y'know, the Amazon that you adore.
I have stated and repeat that I am no fan of Amazon. They are ruthless as Wal-mart was and still is. Ebay is inept.
The first two will be the survivors.
The Standard Oils of the retail trade.
In the end, the consumer pays more. And in this particular case, an ounce of gold has gone up over $50 since buyer purchased the item. One cannot fix stupid.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
But eBay is just copying a policy from The Great Amazon.
They have no choice if they want to compete.
But AMZN has invested heavily in inventory and warehouses and transportation.
They would be viable as a stand alone without third party vendors.
Meanwhile Ebay has sat on their butt for over a decade depending on individuals like us to provide merchandise and arrange transport. Their last really good move was acquiring and integrating Paypal which gave them control over the payment processing giant. They spun them off.
Who wins?
It doesn't matter who's doing the "vending". When the industry standard is free shipping and free returns, you have no choice but to offer the same thing.
Luckily, you are on the winning side of the volatility on this one.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
What about the old used line on returns, as I used to see this in the old days of Ebay.....................
"there will be a 10% restocking fee on all returns"
Would that work today?
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
We can dissect this 1000 ways. Reality is that in slabbed rare coins, the Sunday action that was on Ebay, is now at Great Collections. Why is that? Well for the non professional seller, they can mail of their coins to GC and for the same cost or less, have Ian and his quality group do all of the work, not have to worry about return shipping or Paypal deductions in the event that a coin of theirs is returned to GC. That is largely true for the professional seller as well that favors the action route.
We have seen several threads here recently regarding dissatisfaction with Ebay. Few or none with people unhappy with Great Collections.
Sure that is only one category, but ask the folks peddling clothes and artwork and general merchandise on the site and mot have either departed or are looking for other avenues.
No point in churning the subject any longer.
I offer returns. As a buyer I generally back off from someone who does not. Based on my experience of an incident where a $129 Mrr loco did not run eBay will force the issue for you if a seller refuses a return.
Returns are very infrequent on my sales. Unless otherwise stated the item I ship them is the exact item in the picture. I do expect the buyer pay return shipping. Once coin received back a refund is issued.
I have a couple of fav sellers I deal with where I know I will get the exact item pictured.
You never know when a buyer may return something. The higher ticket the item the likelihood of a return increases. Bigger ticket items like $20 DE where especially it takes tight spread move them I do at shows only.
It costs me about 12 pct variable sell expense or more operate on bay - shipping, store subscr, seller fees, PayPal. This does not include packaging supplies, reference books, subscriptions, other sch c exp of business. Shows I have a fixed cost hole (table fee, travel, lodging, meals) I may or may not be able to clear net profit wise.
Much better prices and variety for coins on Ebay than big A. Surprised at how many coins Walmart has for sale but
again, Ebay has em beat. BTW, had heating oil delivered today, already jumped up by 4c p/gal for tomorrow. Should
have bought last Friday, lol.
I recently returned a coin to a seller that I have dome repeat business with. I hated doing it, but it was a toned gold coin, and it did not NEARLY have as much toning as the pictures made it seem, so it was not worth the premium I had paid. Thankfully they had no issues with me returning it, and I still plan on buying more from them in the future.