Jefferson nickel collection 1971 to 2003

leothelyon

Posting dates 1971 to 2003, 96 coins.
Link to get back to the 1938 to 1970 set.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006121/jefferson-nickel-collection-for-sale/p1?new=1#pagetop
Scroll to see the coins.
Why $765,000? I have laughed at that number myself but where do I start? Building finding a collection where every coin has an EDS strike from an early set of hubs and dies took time, 34+ years. Every coin has full details. Zero coins have weak or missing details or less than a full strike unless noted for educational purposes. All design features are bold and sharp, on display for every date. I sought after coins that came from the earliest sets of working hubs and dies. I wanted coins that displayed every distinctive element the sculptor intended in his design. Fervent Buffalo nickel collectors are the same way. If you haven't searched for VEDS JNs, would you understand how the very hard element of "nickel" limited the availability of high-quality coins?
Most coins stamped at the US Mints ended up with mushy, weak, missing details. All the other coin denominations, the dime, quarter and half dollar, the planchets were made of a softer alloy, 90% silver, 1938 to 1964. And when silver completely left our coinage after 1970, the new coin blanks contained only 8.33% of the very hard element of "nickel" compared to the 25% for nickels.

Many unique, never seen before VEDS, PL, FS, business strikes are presented here. I'll never understand the lure of coins that are not all there with complete strikes.
Examples of the 1939-PDS Type 1 examples with 5 uninterrupted steps and many of the 1950 to 1970 dates with very rare EDS strikes w/pristine surfaces, many with prooflike finishes are very rare finds.
Many EDS examples have 6 to near 6 steps. An amazing selection of high-quality Jefferson nickels from almost 35 years of searching!
No coin has a weak strike, The best 1953-S on the market came from this set.

While there are hundreds of pristine EDS FS examples, a few coins do not have perfect markfree steps. This set was built around the overall strike, not only the steps. Problem coins would eventually get upgraded whenever possible. When a coin is EDS and lustrous, what's left....contact marks and their location! Toning can be tricky. I don't like it overpowering the luster and only in the peripherals. An over-toned coin loses its lustrous fields and can also hide the strike.

The 2nd set for sale, dates run from 1938 to 2003 and it's 98% complete. Grades MS64 to MS67. Consists of, 38PDS, 39PDS T2, 39PD T1's not FS. A few PL wartime and others. Tough dates 49-P, 52-PS 53-PS, 54S, 60D, 62D, 63D. The 65, 66 & 67 business strikes to 70S will have the best of strike and partial steps. Like I said, the set is not complete. An excellent mixture of both certified and raw coins in 2x2 mylar flips. My asking prices are not chiseled in stone. You might get to pick and choose on some dates.

Scroll down to view the coins 1971 to 2003.

Subsequently, after a pair of working dies stamps hundreds of coin blanks, the details subsequently lose sharpness. The windows begin to fade and the deep hairlines on Jefferson are not all that prominent anymore. When there are few details left/remaining on a die, fewer details are transferred over to the planchet. All due to the very hard chemical element of "nickel" used to make the coin blanks. https://www.usmint.gov/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/coin_composition_changes.jpg

Such coins with missing/lacking details shouldn't grade beyond MS64 or at all for that matter and should be net-graded but they are "as struck", right? Grading coins with strike deficiencies is very misleading! MS65 grade and up should be reserved for coins with complete details and the fewer the marks, the better. And let's not forget original mint bloom luster! When a coin is missing the most aesthetic, beautiful aspect/appeal of a coin....its sharp 3-dimensional designs/devices, the initial minute detailed works by the sculptor, Felix Schlag....rendering a grade to a weakly struck coin that resembles the raw planchet more than what the coin is supposed to be about; Thomas Jefferson and the Monticello.....what's there to grade/appreciate?

But yet, the US Mint made coins with complete deep hairlines, sharp windows and with full steps, some with 6. They accomplished this with the first working hubs and dies and the use of higher coining pressure. This is how "collector coins" were born and this collection has many fine examples.
But once the dies started to show wear, the coining pressure was reduced to extend the life of the dies, to churn out as many coins for circulation/commerce. The master hubs, master dies and working hubs all suffered the same fate, taking on wear during production. They did not want the dies to break/crack but many did. Most notably with the wartime silver run.
Lastly, collecting coins will not be a winning prospect for most. Why? Because you really need to be able to market your coins unless you're happy/content with just buying numbers and hoping for the best. But you must have the coins. So.....knowing this, always buy your coins with disposable funds with the mindset of choosing the right coins. Money set aside for such adventures, well...there's no fun worrying all the time if you're just throwing money away. Adventures are to be enjoyed.
Another area, if you want others to see your works, you must become a photographer. Setting your coins in the right light...... The hurdles I've had to clear! But taking high-quality pictures is possible unless you can afford to have them done if they're done right. To capture the minds of others from afar. Your collection is only as good as your photography skills........as the old saying goes? Whatever it is, it's nice to show your coins.

I've recently acquired 313 coins since April 2021. A list can be viewed in this link.
[https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/147244/fs-jefferson-nickel-collection/p1?new=1]

I have considered making individual sets but would like to see someone take over the entire set. All the time it has taken to accumulate these great coins, it does not make sense to break them up. But I do have a coin or two for sale!
The US Mint uses higher coining pressure to make coins for proof and mint sets/collector coins. Coining pressure was reduced to strike coins for circulation/commerce. When they made more SMS Satin Finish (SF) coins than needed for the mint sets, a few got released into circulation along with the commerce coins. This is where it got confusing as collectors, cgcs encountered difficulties telling them apart. And so everyone was losing their perspective with what they were collecting for their sets, keeping them in a uniform appearance with the earlier dates. Letters were sent (I wasn't the only one) to the US Mint and SMS SF coins 2005 to 2010 ended.
Being able to grade coins enables interest in collecting coins. That is, unless you don't mind/allow others, totally trusting them to tell you how to think/collect. But, in time, hopefully, you'll learn and become less dependent on others, insuring you are acquiring high-quality coins.
Mint set coins from 2004 and up began to take on a perfected appearance. Mint set coins started to consistently grade MS68 and MS69 and so the grading companies labeled them as Specially Minted Set/coins (SMS)
This was part of my reasoning in a letter I sent to the US Mint about the Satin finish (SF) 2005 to 2010 coins including the adverse effect their methods of manufacturing were having at the time on the grading aspect of the hobby, whether a coin came from a roll or a mint set. There was great confusion in the matter and in the population report. Surprisingly, the US Mint discontinued giving coins that sandblasted Satin Finish (SF) look.
Interestingly enough, when they ended the SF coins in 2010, the grading companies stopped calling the coins (SMS or SP) regardless of the fact the US Mint continued to use higher coining pressure and special handling.
So what are the coin collector's options? I think if they want to keep some kind of consistency in appearance with the coins they collected, that they should select their coins from circulation and learn how to spot a mint set coin to avoid adding an SMS. The fact is, there are millions of collectors who don't buy US Mint products, that they collect from change/rolls. Mint set coins from 2004, I believe, will look too perfect, usually grade MS68/69. I usually say, the difference/melded hairlines, is in the details of Jefferson's hair bangs. (the lack of details) Otherwise, collectors are going to have coins of mix quality if they don't watch it.
The 1st and early set dates from 1938 to 1970. 2nd set 1971 to 2003. 3rd set, 2004 to date, one from circulation, another from mint sets.
Bottom line: The coins made for circulation, the search for high grade examples is going to get lost with collectors in generations to come. Coins from the mint sets will be plentiful for many years. But what will happen to those high grade examples from circulation, coins that were made with less coining pressure. Where's the fun hunting for that date from circulation the way it was before 2004 when all one has to do is pick up one of those perfected coins from a mint set? But on the upside, the US Mint made billions of nickels for circulation so they won't be going anywhere soon, not too lost for now as I'm certain many rolls have been saved but when will that occur and how much will it cost per roll to search in say.....2065, a generation from now?

Many photos were taken some 15 to 26 years back with a 1999 Sony Mavica 1.2 camera. Today, I use a newer camera.
All coins come out of the US Mint with mint bloom luster and that is the very first quality I sought when viewing a coin. But for older coins, depending on its long term storage, we determine just how much of the original mint bloom luster remains. Toning/corrosion can overcome luster. When scanning thru a dealer's huge catalog of coins, this is how I could go through all the coins in a matter of seconds....who wants a dull-looking coin?
If you've made it to this page than I would think you have a great interest, who loves the hobby. A true collector of collector coins. For a reward, I'll try to share with you in greater depth what I believe it takes to recognize high-quality coins. Following these tips may enhance your coin collecting experience. The one big question that I have always asked myself every time before laying money down, I think to myself, "just what in tarnation am I buying?" The answer is quite frank, "Is the coin all there and what exactly is that? Does it meet my expectations? Is the strike/all the details of the original design imprinted/stamped, present on the coin the best you can reasonably expect? This was my first lesson, learning what a fully struck nickel is. It's amazing the number of folks who don't know, are not quite there yet. And many don't ever get there! Anyone can strive towards a higher sense of quality. Everything from the best toilet paper to that first car you buy. It's a learning process everyone goes through. For some, it takes a long time. Look at it this way. Usually, after one spends a few bucks and accumulates a few coins, one usually takes a step back and asks themselves, what am I doing. This is when we derive ways to sort our coins, which coins are lustrous or have fewer marks. Eventually, we start to see the details on a coin. We notice how some coins are missing details or coins with mushy strikes. Before we know it, the race is on to locate those coins with the greatest amount of details. Why? Because we also take notice there are very few in that initial accumulation that meets that newer standard you came to understand. It's only when one realizes, this is when one begins his/her quest to find the boldest strike detail on a coin. Many collectors are not even at this stage to build a great collection in this sense. Even with all the money in the World, they just don't quite have it, They aren't even close. On a recent adventure through some Registry sets, I didn't realize until then that later dates in the 70's and 80's could also come with poor/weak strikes/details. This fact only leaves those EDS coins for us better learned collectors.
I was at a coin show recently and there were 3-4 dealers with coins marked up with "out of this world" prices, like a 1961-D with one step for $135. Looking at the guy and he didn't even look like he cared and I quipped, will you take $1.35 because that was all the coin was worth. He laughs, I laugh and then proceeded to the next table. Another had a coin with a scribbled dollar amount so I asked, what's this say I can't read it. He says $45. I responded with, it doesn't even have any steps. Like most of these shysters, they just stand there and stare back at you with no response. And so I leave that table. Another dealer upon seeing his overpriced junk, I inadvertantly blurted out loud to myself, damn, another dealer with overpriced coins and moved on from that table. Surprisingly, 2 hours later, once in my life, I failed to find one quality coin 1938 to 1970 with original mint bloom luster on that entire bourse floor. And I noticed a few regular dealers missing from the show.
The show was better this year. A dealer had a run of mint set dates in 2X2's from 2004 and up. They were marked anywhere from 50 cents to $2.

Another thing was, the earliest of dies made did not always contain full details. And, the Earliest of Die State examples don't always equate to having full steps. Not every new die would have all the details in it. The last will take some time to understand/sink in. But it has to do with how the last pair of working hubs/dies made/produced will have fewer sharp details than the first set of working hubs/dies made. Back on the first page, I recently posted two coins, a 1948-S and 1949-S that show sunken (not raised) die polish lines that occurred to the working hub (not the working die) before they were used to make the working dies. This tells me they had as much of a battle to upkeep the hubs as they did with the working dies.

There are basically only three criteria's I'll think over and over again in my head while analyzing a coin, is the strike, the condition and the luster of the coin comparable or better to the best I have ever seen for the date? Personally, if the strike is not full, I'll pass, I won't even bother flipping it over...unless, of course, it's one of the tougher dates, for example, a DBL Mont., or a 1953-S or 1961-D, those are money makers. There are far far more details in Thomas Jefferson's hair alone that are harder to locate than coins that show only the steps. But when you have both on a single coin, you have a great coin. For a fact, a coin with all its sharp details but shows only 4+ steps is far more of a full step example over a coin with a mushy strike, that shows only the steps. And there are a lot of folks out there who think they really have a full step coin when most, if not all the other devices that were originally carved into the sculptor's plaster model, are not present on the coin. Just how many of the coins in your set are actually genuine full step nickels? A coin may appear to be fully struck but if you look closer and know what your checking for, are the top of the windows in sharp detail? Are the end steps full, especially the left side. This past 5 months, I have been grading 100's of Jefferson nickels collected by a gentleman who had collected this series longer than I have, 45 years to my 30 years. And for every coin, my mind went through the same process .......is the coin all there?

Full steps on the Monticello building has been a very highly hunted item for many collectors for many years. But subsequently, what a great deal of folks don't know or they pretend to not know or worse, they do know but they don't know better or care and there are those who just haven't had the great fortitude to locate truly high-quality collector coins. As a pair of working dies strike thousands of coins and they really do take quite a beating, causing the devices to flatten/spread out. When this ultimately occurs, there is a shifting/relocation of the metal that flows/heads towards the steps. And at the same time, interestingly enough, the Monticello steps begin to develop/become more visible, fade in as the other devices in the dies wear down/fade out. The coining pressure was often reduced/adjusted to strike coins for commerce/circulation. With less pressure, the flow of metal would not reach the steps. Not until the highest points on a coin (hairlines for instance) or the lower recesses in the dies began to wear down, would the metal be able to reach the steps. Many Jefferson nickels struck with deteriorating dies ended up with steps forming and this was due to the relocation of the metal meant for other devices that were no longer in the dies. So a coin struck from worn/over-used dies would end up with, what I have termed, compensated steps. Very detailed steps would start to appear on what I have also termed, "design-less nickels", some with 6 steps. When the metal can not flow where there were once details.... the extra metal has to go somewhere, would eventually make its way/relocate to the lowest recesses available left in the dies, the steps. The steps are one of the highest points on the reverse side of the coin, lowest recess in the die. Where all other details are mush yet the steps are sharp? very well defined? It also didn't help, a stretch of Jefferson's hair above the ear is a low recess on the obverse die just opposite of the steps. This is the phenom of this series when we see that only the steps have struck up while most of the other details on Jefferson and the Monticello did not strike up, were no longer in the working dies. Simply compare the details of a later date coin to that of the 1938 is the easiest way to grade the strike. But your eye will train itself as it grades thousands of coins.
Let's also take note, the size and metal content remains the same for every coin blank and for every coin made. Once much of the original design was gone, hammered down to practically nothing, the seldom unreachable recesses in the die, the steps would gradually fill in. A few collectors who don't agree with my theory, they fail to offer another as to why a coin with a mushy strike has unusually sharp detailed steps.

Also know this, a coin with few raised devices/details will receive fewer hits/nicks from other coins. Also, when there are fewer devices for the metal to flow into, there is greater stress on the planchet/higher compaction resulting in a far more harder surface. A harder surface is less likely to develop hits/nicks from other coins.... grading higher more often than a coin with a full strike/softer surfaces. And if this is not amazing enough to realize, poorly struck examples exist beyond 1970, mainly for dates a year or two before they made new master hubs; 1977, 1982, 1986. And you will see those mushy coins in holders as well.
There was a 51D with 6 full steps in a 66+ holder but the seller provided 3-4 pics of the obverse which clearly showed a weak strike. And so the extra metal intended for those missing hair details got pressed/squeezed into the reverse die and into the steps. Needless to say, I lost interest and moved on. I mean, you wouldn't want a sculpture or a painting if they were incomplete, missing details. Or a car with only two working windows, a missing door and 3 tires? Do you get my drift? But, I guess, with coins........there are many things that could have a negative impact on the eye appeal. That is, if that collector is even able to look past the label.

Searched 2 US Mint bags one year, each with $200 Jeff nickels or 8000 nickels in total. 1969-D and 1970-D bags. The following is 1 of only 3 70-D nickels that had anything close to 5 steps. In reality, this example cost me a little more than a nickel. Took most of the year to search thru them. I looked at every coin. Ended up with 4 rolls, two for each date, coins I believed were MS65 and higher. And assembled a couple dozen 1969-D nickels that had machine doubling that moved from left and to right.


Lower grade, nicer steps but not full.

Besides the strike, take note of the mark-free profiles.
Don't forget, I've added many new coins for the later dates recently....see the hard list.








Nicks in the main focal area of the cheek makes it MS64.





I sought coins that would grade very conservatively. A viewer may notice many of the coins have very mark-free cheeks and fields and appear to grade higher than the assigned grades. A coin with a strong, very detailed strike is the only standard that separates collector coins from coins made for circulation. The only criteria/aspect that will fluctuate the grade is the condition. Marks/scuffs, scrapes, carbon spots, hits, nicks, scratches, laminations, a cleaning and lack of luster will always lower the grade. In addition, the earliest of first dies strikes are not always lustrous and so the dies are polished to make luster. Full luster is created once the flow lines begin to develop. This movement of metal as tons of pressure is applied onto a coin blank to fill the devices/design in the dies, that movement/flow of metal creates flow lines in the fields and at the same time, they're transferred back onto the dies. And as the very first few coins are stamped, more flow lines are created on the dies. As this transference process takes place, natural luster improves.
So the luster on those very few first die strikes will have a more subtle, soft glowing type of luster, that of the element of "nickel". One can see this pattern/correlation on every 6 step coin I own and those coins may also show evidence of lathe cutting tool bit lines on and inside/along the rims, another indication of an EDS strike.





Not FS but....


Locating mark-free examples is everyone's goal, right? Especially in the cheek area.

EDS, although TV doesn't show it. Strike-thru on cheek, 3-4 scrapes ov. Rv, MS67+ 5.25 steps.









Take note how markfree these errors are but yet grade MS65-66. Are these coins
highly compacted where they don't easily get nicks? A fun coin to collect.



Breen 1982-PD Varieties debunked. The irregular star of 1981 never made it to any 1982 date.
There are only two varieties, the Rev. of 77 Type 1 and the Rev. of 82 Type 2.



Unusually worn obv. die.










It's necessary to write something so I can add/move out/upgrade the pics easier.









There was once a coin club for Jefferson nickels called FSNC and they graded everything, the strike, condition and steps. They also had a method for counting the steps. The following notations were used to describe a coin; 1954-S MS64 f/str 5.25 steps, 1953-S MS65 m/str 5.00 steps, 1961-D MS64 f/m str 4.50 4cs steps. I'm not going to go into all the details but collectors then, cared about the strike, condition and the best steps they could find.










































I once had all the proof coins for this set but a few toned not in a good way being stored in a 2x2 box. But every so often, certified sets 1976 to 2003 in PR69 Dcam grade become available on ebay.
Thanks for looking. Leo

More info on collector coins.
First off, no-one can understand the scope of this collection unless they are or have been on a similar journey. And have built up a belief that with persistence they could find something they once thought was unobtainable. No-one wakes up one day and says, wow, how complicated this has been and yet really fully understands what they're looking for. It all takes patience and a lot of time.
Distinguishing collector coins from those with compensated steps is following a very basic fundamental decision to break down a coin's aspects/characteristics, the strike, condition and luster. One learns/trains the eye to pay close attention to what every distinctive design element should look like or how luster is formed and when each is in it's fullest expectations. It's ether all there the way you have come to understand/what to expect and if not, your hunt continues.
I sought coins that did not have evidence of die fatigue/weakness in any of the details all the way up to the top of Jefferson's hair, in the fields and on the Monticello. Such a coin with defects means two things; one, the design features were not in the dies. Two, the metal meant for those details went elsewhere, very likely to the steps. The steps in the working die would act like a relief reservoir to take up the overflow of metal as other devices deteriorated.
Horseshoe nickels will show Jefferson's profile outlined on the reverse.
The stamping of a coin blank reacts similarly to squishing playdoh in your hand but under extreme pressure. It can take on many different shapes. A coin blank takes form in a mold/a small area that is enclosed on 3 sides. An obverse and reverse working die and a collar creates this 3-sided encloser/mold in which a coin is created. By mechanical means, a coin blank is inserted and under extreme pressure, 50 to 70 tons is applied to transfer the details from the dies onto the coin blank. From repetitive stamping under high pressure, unfortunately, the finer points of the intrinsic devices on the faces of the dies become less and less of the original designs. Eventually, coins would end up with mushy/weak/soft details and are referred to as mid, MDS or late, LDS coins.
Such coins are really not the "collector coins" the US Mint made under higher coining pressure. But they are collected and encapsulated when EDS or full strike examples are not available. Examples with full details, luster, steps in pristine condition are rarely encountered.
Here's an opinion on coins dated 2004 to date.
This may all be pure speculation but here are a few things i believe every collector should take into consideration when choosing quality coins. In particular, 2004 to date. Most collectors caught on fast in 2004 or 2005 that the coins in the mint sets took a drastic turn towards perfection and that such coins did not match the coins in their collections. Because the US Mint started sandblasting the dies giving us a different kind of coin with a satin finish. So collectors realized then, they could still find the coins that matched those in their sets in circulation. And the coin grading companies jumped aboard by designating mint set coins, SMS. But in 2011, they stopped designating coins SMS when the US mint stopped sandblasting the dies thus bringing satin finish coins to an end. Whether it was the letters collectors sent in to the US Mint about the problem with distinguishing circulated coins from the satin finish coins or something else occurred, we'll never know. I was one of those collectors.
So in 2011, the US Mint discontinued making satin finish coins and started issuing brilliant lustrous mint set coins. And the coin grading companies stopped designating mint set coins SMS even though the US Mint continued using higher coining pressure and careful handling for the coins earmarked for the mint sets. And you may have noticed the MS68 and MS69 coins/grades disappeared from the pops and many of those mint set coins are near perfect coins. So it's really up to the collector today to determine if the coin they are collecting was made for circulation or did it come from a mint set. It's so very easy assembling a 2004 to date 2022 set from mint sets. And it's so dirt cheap to do so...about a buck a coin. So collectors need to decide for themselves what a coin made for circulation looks like. And I think it's in the hair bangs of Jefferson and other softer details since the US Mint used lower coining pressure striking the coins for commerce. And you're not going to get any help from the majority of coin collectors steering the coin grading companies to distinguish the differences in strike details between coins. They haven't ever done that as many coins with poor strikes have received high grades.
The US Mint glossary tell us they use two different coin pressure settings between the two products, commerce coins and the uncirculated coins for the mint sets. And one receives special handling (like a conveyor belt so the coins seldom come into contact with each other to avoid any nicks or abrasions. Proof coins likely are made with even higher pressure, why we see wire rims on those coins.
But my point is, pay special attention to those circulating coins, locating the highest grade possible from the rolls. They may become quite valuable someday...once everyone gets on board. Also keep in mind, coins made for the mint sets didn't all make it into a mint set but were released into circulation along with the coins made for circulation. Read an article somewhere about that. But there is a way to distinguish a commerce coin from a mint set coin. If the coin looks too perfect, it's likely from a mint set or was made for a mint set,
I have set aside coin rolls for a few dates in this date range but haven't searched them. The end of roll coins had toned, one reason why I purchased them.

Over the years, this collection has received a tremendous amount of comments. The funniest was after someone viewed this collection, made one guy want to toss his into the trash and start over! But folks, don't give up on your sets, keep upgrading and your collection can only get better.
Another said, those coins in that set are what dreams are made of.
I have enjoyed many of the comments and appreciate them. But I'll say it again, other collectors like Bern Nagengast, Bill Fivas, Adolf Weiss, Daryl Crane and many other collectors are more responsible with the locating and saving many of the coins in this set. I'm just an intermediate caretaker for now and someone else will eventually take over.....even if it's my children.

As a reminder, 313 coins have been added since April 2021. See hard list. https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/147244/fs-jefferson-nickel-collection/p1?new=1

Leo