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2020 Baseball HOF Vote
grote15
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in Sports Talk
With nearly 20% of the 2020 Baseball HOF vote in, Jeter is (as expected) at 100% with both Schilling and Walker at 86.7%. Bonds and Clemens are at 76% which is actually lower than where they were at this point last year (the later ballots typically cause these vote percentages, especially for these 2 players, to fall), and then there's a huge dropoff to Vizquel at 49.3%.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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Still can't understand McGriff. 7 more homers and he's in (probably) at 500 but Baines and others recently get in for nothing more than an average career.
Kent being the second greatest offensive 2nd baseman ever is also a head scratcher.
Walker decent in Montreal and becomes superman in Colorado-pass.
Just rambling.
I still do not understand McGriff not being in. larry walker is good player but hof player maybe. seems kind of weird that walker for his first eight years was on verge of being off the ballot then the last two he is everybodys favorite.
Baines doesn't belong but he had far from an "average" career. 2800+ games, 2800+ hits - that is way, way above average. Ditto for the careers of Morris and everybody who's gotten in recently.
And Walker was "decent" in Montreal? 2 Gold Gloves, a Silver Slugger, an All-Star appearance and two top-11 MVP finishes is "decent"?
YES on Walker!
Most people hear the splits and dismiss Walker, but they don't think for themselves, or they don't look at anything else but the fact he was tremendous at home and only great on the road.
From 1995 to 2003 he was hurt in two seasons where he played in 83 and 87 games and hit poorly on the road.
In the other 7 seasons he had an OPS on the road of .922! That's just a couple of points below Frank Robinson and a couple above Mike Piazza on the all time list, that's how good he was on the road when he played for Colorado!
His last three (or so) years in Colorado were also overshadowed by the juicebags, he might have had a couple more OPS titles if not for those guys.
What also gets ignored is the fact that he was a true 5 tool player who won 7 Gold Glove awards and was a pretty good base stealer with years of 29 and 33 SB. Also had a good to great arm in the outfield although no one cares about that at all.
In his final year at the age of 38 (and not playing in Colorado) he was still able to achieve an OPS+ of 130 and a SLG of .502.
It's INSANE that this guy isn't in the HOF.
Baines played 22 seasons so yes average. He was a solid player as I saw him play in Chicago but average is how I would describe his career. His numbers are good but he played for a long time.
Walker in Montreal was decent. He was a stud in Colorado. 2 top 10 MVP finishes is not an amazing accomplishment. He didn't put up HOF numbers until he got to Colorado. He averaged 111 hits per season and 16 HR and 64 RBI per season in Montreal. It would have been better if he played more, but didn't. Yes, I would put him as decent in Montreal.
Walker suffers both from a shortish career and the perceptions of playing in Colorado. And he deserves to suffer for both of these things, but he probably suffers more than he should. If the HOF were what it should be, he'd be borderline. A HOF that includes Harold Baines and not Larry Walker is a joke, and Walker (and a couple hundred others) will eventually get in on that basis if nothing else.
Walker always seemed like the everyday player version of Sandy koufax to me. Had a shortish career with a high peak and their home ballparks were an advantage to them. I think if Sandy is in, put walker in as well.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
He got a late start to his career, partially because he missed an entire season because of a knee injury.
Looks to me like he could have hung around for a couple of more years. His final year was better than most of the HOFers with long careers.
I suggest you look up the definitions of "average" and "decent". You're telling me the AVERAGE major leaguer plays 2800 games? No. The average career is 5.6 seasons. One in five play exactly one season.
"Decent" players don't win Gold Gloves and lead the league in doubles. Saying Walker averaged 111 hits in Montreal is misleading as heck since one of those years was 20 games and another was the lockout, costing him 50 games. He actually averaged more like 140-145 hits while averaging over 20 homers. Not superstar level but way, way above "decent".
I already stated that Baines was a solid player, but no way in hell is he a HOF'er no matter how many games he plays. I'm not worried about the exact definition of decent and average but neither of them are HOF'ers. Walker was not putting up big numbers in Montreal no matter what definition you are using.
You're changing what you're saying. I'm not saying Baines was a HOFer, just that he wasn't average. That's the word you used - repeatedly. Same with Walker. You said he was "decent" - repeatedly - in Montreal. That's just not correct. And now you're changing what you're saying.
I never said you said Baines was a Hof'er, I just meant he just wasn't a Hof'er in general. I didn't change anything I said. I still say Walker was decent in Montreal. Comparing Baines to other deserving HOF'ers would put him to me as average. I'm just not impressed with his long career and his numbers. Again, I said he was a solid player but nothing special.
Using Baseball Reference's Wins Above Average, Baines is somewhere between Cody Ross and Corey Hart, to pick a couple of players who fit pretty closely, are recent enough that most of us can remember them, and played the same primary position. To me that is almost the definition of an average player. Mentioning him in connection with Larry Walker is like mentioning Jim Rice in connection with Barry Bonds.
I agree, although except for 1 season (1966) Koufax was average on the road.
Walker hit for an OPS of .922 on the road during his time in Colorado (except for the two years he was hurt and played in about 40 games on the road in each of those seasons). His SLG number over the same years on the road is .528!
Mike Schmidt slugged.527 for his career.
.922 is HOF level hitting. He gets penalized for hitting 1.193 at home during the same years? Maybe he should have hit a little worse at home and would be more highly regarded?
Funny you bring up Koufax, at Dodger Stadium (known for being a "pitchers" park) in 1995 Walker had an OPS of 1.214 and in 1998 it was 1.797, both years a higher number than at Coors Field.
Koufax was a full time player for 9 years, Walker for 16, with 11 of those years playing in at least 127 games. There are PLENTY of guys in the HOF with less than 8000 PA, so that shouldn't be a factor.
Walker should be in on just his hitting, add defense and running ability and it's amazing to me he is not in.
I agree with your points on Walker. I was just using Koufax as a quick comparison of a hofer with a similar type career. I am a big hall guy and certainly believe walker to be hof worthy
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Koufax is a great example to compare with Walker.
The difference is probably championships won.
Some writer looking for attention will leave Jeter off of their ballot.