@BryceM said:
I can't see that a Morgan is comparable to an ASE. One is made of a commercial coin alloy, tough enough to see it through its intended, but never actually realized, purpose. From its inception, the ASE was never meant to circulate and carries only a token face value. As almost pure silver, It's not tough enough to endure circulation. It's a bullion issue and was never intended to be "the" one dollar coin of our nation. That job has been (totally ineffectively) assigned to the SBA, SAC, and subsequent "gold" dollar issues.
I don't have time to read the whole thread, but I would like to take a few seconds to acknowledge that Morgans, my preferred series, were nothing more than a jobs program, essentially, for the mining industry, and nearly bankrupted the country by 1893.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@BryceM said:
I can't see that a Morgan is comparable to an ASE. One is made of a commercial coin alloy, tough enough to see it through its intended, but never actually realized, purpose. From its inception, the ASE was never meant to circulate and carries only a token face value. As almost pure silver, It's not tough enough to endure circulation. It's a bullion issue and was never intended to be "the" one dollar coin of our nation. That job has been (totally ineffectively) assigned to the SBA, SAC, and subsequent "gold" dollar issues.
I don't have time to read the whole thread, but I would like to take a few seconds to acknowledge that Morgans, my preferred series, were nothing more than a jobs program, essentially, for the mining industry, and nearly bankrupted the country by 1893.
@jmlanzaf said:
Again, listen to the Market. For a lot of younger collectors, ASEs not Morgans are EXACTLY what they think of when you say "silver dollar". [Which has confused many an older dealer. ]
I disagree 100%. I’ve been on Instagram for over 4 years now. There are a TON of collectors on there, the vast majority in their mid 20s or younger. Almost NONE of them that I can think collect ASEs. Every day I see one morgan dollar after another posted. Pretty much never see an ASE posted unless it’s a mega toner from a toner collector.
Interesting observation.
My primary difference of opinion with the theme of the original post is that I don't see any actual evidence that most collectors of the ASE actually prefer it as implied. There is a difference between "popular" measured by the number of collectors buying only what they can afford and an actual preference with the money to buy what they actually want. This is the reality with most low priced coinage (most ASE), except with those who are spending "noticeable" amounts which is a very low minority with the ASE.
I would assign an actual preference to some proportion who buy the 95-W, those paying current market for this coin, toning enthusiasts and those buying the 70's where the premium is higher but not hardly anyone else. I state "some proportion" because it's evident (to me) that many are primarily buying this series for financial reasons where collecting is secondary.
We can infer that a noticeable proportion of the Morgan dollar collector base usually (or always) prefer it because the financial outlay enables them to buy a (very) wide range of alternatives. That's far less true of the ASE.
@Texast said:
I really can't see any true comparison between the Morgan and the ASE series. The ASE's were never intended to circulate like the Morgan's. In this respect I do not consider the ASE to be a true silver dollar, it is not the image I get when I see something mentioned about silver dollars and I doubt I am the only one here that feels that way.
With a total of five collector versions, and one bullion version ASE issued this year alone it has become tiresome to believe that I to have them all to complete my collection.
I think before I pay $1000 for a Silver Eagle that was just released I'm going to look at a 1909 S VDB cent to fill a hole in that series.
JMHO
Again, listen to the Market. For a lot of younger collectors, ASEs not Morgans are EXACTLY what they think of when you say "silver dollar". [Which has confused many an older dealer. ]
I disagree 100%. I’ve been on Instagram for over 4 years now. There are a TON of collectors on there, the vast majority in their mid 20s or younger. Almost NONE of them that I can think collect ASEs. Every day I see one morgan dollar after another posted. Pretty much never see an ASE posted unless it’s a mega toner from a toner collector.
You are simply wrong. I didn't say all younger collectors. Every dealer I know gets frequent phone calls about "collection of silver dollars" only to find out they are all silver eagles. The owner is almost always in their 30s and 40s
There are a lot of eagle collectors of all ages. But i guarantee almost everyone over 50 thinks Morgans or the like when you say silver dollars. The only people that would ever think ASEs when you say silver dollars are younger. In my experience.
@Texast said:
I really can't see any true comparison between the Morgan and the ASE series. The ASE's were never intended to circulate like the Morgan's. In this respect I do not consider the ASE to be a true silver dollar, it is not the image I get when I see something mentioned about silver dollars and I doubt I am the only one here that feels that way.
With a total of five collector versions, and one bullion version ASE issued this year alone it has become tiresome to believe that I to have them all to complete my collection.
I think before I pay $1000 for a Silver Eagle that was just released I'm going to look at a 1909 S VDB cent to fill a hole in that series.
JMHO
Again, listen to the Market. For a lot of younger collectors, ASEs not Morgans are EXACTLY what they think of when you say "silver dollar". [Which has confused many an older dealer. ]
That's just sad...
And 100% inaccurate.
Again, you are simply not reading what I wrote. Or possibly not understanding it.
@Texast said:
I really can't see any true comparison between the Morgan and the ASE series. The ASE's were never intended to circulate like the Morgan's. In this respect I do not consider the ASE to be a true silver dollar, it is not the image I get when I see something mentioned about silver dollars and I doubt I am the only one here that feels that way.
With a total of five collector versions, and one bullion version ASE issued this year alone it has become tiresome to believe that I to have them all to complete my collection.
I think before I pay $1000 for a Silver Eagle that was just released I'm going to look at a 1909 S VDB cent to fill a hole in that series.
JMHO
Again, listen to the Market. For a lot of younger collectors, ASEs not Morgans are EXACTLY what they think of when you say "silver dollar". [Which has confused many an older dealer. ]
That's just sad...
And 100% inaccurate.
And I also am not away all surprised that younger people also collect Morgan or Peace dollars. You are trying to argue a different point than the one I made.
If it was not for the HSN show with all the knifes and the guy with the fancy suit and the nice rolex watch I would of never started as a coin collector. Its just later that I realized they all scammed me! I guess its my own fault buyer beware.
It was not till after I arrived here like a new pup that I learned all those wonderful coins Mi#e sold me might spot at a later date and I over paid. But he seemed so nice on TV. He is a good talker and I still think he is very smart!
@Texast said:
I really can't see any true comparison between the Morgan and the ASE series. The ASE's were never intended to circulate like the Morgan's. In this respect I do not consider the ASE to be a true silver dollar, it is not the image I get when I see something mentioned about silver dollars and I doubt I am the only one here that feels that way.
With a total of five collector versions, and one bullion version ASE issued this year alone it has become tiresome to believe that I to have them all to complete my collection.
I think before I pay $1000 for a Silver Eagle that was just released I'm going to look at a 1909 S VDB cent to fill a hole in that series.
JMHO
Again, listen to the Market. For a lot of younger collectors, ASEs not Morgans are EXACTLY what they think of when you say "silver dollar". [Which has confused many an older dealer. ]
I disagree 100%. I’ve been on Instagram for over 4 years now. There are a TON of collectors on there, the vast majority in their mid 20s or younger. Almost NONE of them that I can think collect ASEs. Every day I see one morgan dollar after another posted. Pretty much never see an ASE posted unless it’s a mega toner from a toner collector.
You are simply wrong. I didn't say all younger collectors. Every dealer I know gets frequent phone calls about "collection of silver dollars" only to find out they are all silver eagles. The owner is almost always in their 30s and 40s
There are a lot of eagle collectors of all ages. But i guarantee almost everyone over 50 thinks Morgans or the like when you say silver dollars. The only people that would ever think ASEs when you say silver dollars are younger. In my experience.
Again, that is NOT EVERYONE under 50 or under 30.
Those frequent calls are probably from people that inherited their parents or grandparents tote of mint products spanning the last 30 years. The caller refers to them as “silver dollars” because they don’t know what they have and the words “silver” and “dollar” are right on the round.
Also, I didn’t say you said EVERY collector, or even imply that you did. You said A LOT, which could be any number to you. But from my experience, not even 2% of the young collectors - younger than 30 - collect ASEs. 2% is not A LOT to me.
@Texast said:
I really can't see any true comparison between the Morgan and the ASE series. The ASE's were never intended to circulate like the Morgan's. In this respect I do not consider the ASE to be a true silver dollar, it is not the image I get when I see something mentioned about silver dollars and I doubt I am the only one here that feels that way.
With a total of five collector versions, and one bullion version ASE issued this year alone it has become tiresome to believe that I to have them all to complete my collection.
I think before I pay $1000 for a Silver Eagle that was just released I'm going to look at a 1909 S VDB cent to fill a hole in that series.
JMHO
Again, listen to the Market. For a lot of younger collectors, ASEs not Morgans are EXACTLY what they think of when you say "silver dollar". [Which has confused many an older dealer. ]
I disagree 100%. I’ve been on Instagram for over 4 years now. There are a TON of collectors on there, the vast majority in their mid 20s or younger. Almost NONE of them that I can think collect ASEs. Every day I see one morgan dollar after another posted. Pretty much never see an ASE posted unless it’s a mega toner from a toner collector.
You are simply wrong. I didn't say all younger collectors. Every dealer I know gets frequent phone calls about "collection of silver dollars" only to find out they are all silver eagles. The owner is almost always in their 30s and 40s
There are a lot of eagle collectors of all ages. But i guarantee almost everyone over 50 thinks Morgans or the like when you say silver dollars. The only people that would ever think ASEs when you say silver dollars are younger. In my experience.
Again, that is NOT EVERYONE under 50 or under 30.
Those frequent calls are probably from people that inherited their parents or grandparents tote of mint products spanning the last 30 years. The caller refers to them as “silver dollars” because they don’t know what they have and the words “silver” and “dollar” are right on the round.
Also, I didn’t say you said EVERY collector, or even imply that you did. You said A LOT, which could be any number to you. But from my experience, not even 2% of the young collectors - younger than 30 - collect ASEs. 2% is not A LOT to me.
Some people who inherit call them silver dollars. Those people also call Ikes silver dollars. I'm talking about people who actually collected them themselves. I've seen this people come in and buy them also.
It's not an insult to young collectors or anything else. It's not even inaccurate. Technically, silver eagles ARE silver dollars. It's just that old folks who started collecting before 1986 tend not to call them that. Believe me, every dealer I know has had multiple phone calls like that. We sort of laugh about it because when you hear "collection of silver dollars" and you tell them to "bring them down", you inevitably feel let down when it's a date set of ASE's.
Just went through some old threads on the 2009 Ultra High Relief (UHR) and the 2011 25th Anniversary 5 coin ASE set. The prices went parabolic, they were the hot things on eBay, people wrote about how valuable they would be, etc. etc. The 2011 ASE had all the drama of household limits and mint outages; eBay first instituted the requirement to paste your handle on a photo of the box in hand. Other listings were summarily cancelled. Dealers paid people to stand in line and purchase the UHR at one of the shows, and eventually the UHR was supported by the melting of all inventory not sold by the end of the year. All fun stories.
Check out sold prices on eBay today. UHRs were selling in 2011 for MS70 PL $6,000 to $7,000 range, and 70’s not proof-like were $3,800 to $4,750. Look at them today...a shadow of their former selves.
Same story with 25th ASE sets. They were selling for over $1,000 sealed. Graded 70s now sell for a 30% discount to that price. Ungraded sets even less.
It sure is fun to witness the hype and read the countless threads on the 2019 enhanced reverse proof ASE. Prices could remain high for a few years. But when the dust settles and the next “thing” comes along from the US Mint, this coin will fade too. Kodak and Xerox come to mind.
Kodak was founded in 1888...if this ASE remains on a high for 124 years...that is solid
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
@philographer said:
Just went through some old threads on the 2009 Ultra High Relief (UHR) and the 2011 25th Anniversary 5 coin ASE set. The prices went parabolic, they were the hot things on eBay, people wrote about how valuable they would be, etc. etc. The 2011 ASE had all the drama of household limits and mint outages; eBay first instituted the requirement to paste your handle on a photo of the box in hand. Other listings were summarily cancelled. Dealers paid people to stand in line and purchase the UHR at one of the shows, and eventually the UHR was supported by the melting of all inventory not sold by the end of the year. All fun stories.
Check out sold prices on eBay today. UHRs were selling in 2011 for MS70 PL $6,000 to $7,000 range, and 70’s not proof-like were $3,800 to $4,750. Look at them today...a shadow of their former selves.
Same story with 25th ASE sets. They were selling for over $1,000 sealed. Graded 70s now sell for a 30% discount to that price. Ungraded sets even less.
It sure is fun to witness the hype and read the countless threads on the 2019 enhanced reverse proof ASE. Prices could remain high for a few years. But when the dust settles and the next “thing” comes along from the US Mint, this coin will fade too. Kodak and Xerox come to mind.
Ahhh, the 2011 5 coin set. We had the copious threads here on that one, too. I missed on the 2011 set and really wanted one. Also, I was on the cusp - received two mint emails that said I might get a set. Never did. To your point, I waited over five years to buy a set. I'm stubborn and didn't want to pay any speculative markup for the set. I do appreciate the member who sold me the unopened set.
Luckily I got the 2019. If not, I would wait the five years for the set to stabilize. Five years out, after the speculation runs its course, I'd imagine a price in the several hundred dollar range.
Of course, everything goes down, eventually stocks lose their value. Companies go out of business. Puppies pass.
But, for the moment, just for the moment, suspend disbelief and cynicism and enjoy the ride!
Guys, I assumed that the 2019s would have a problem coin rate about like the 25th anniversary set. I have been told by someone who is right most of the time its almost 1%. Think 29,775 coins according to a Mint contact.
Eric. You must be losing your touch. Looks like the number of coins reported on another thread is 29,773. 😁
Comments
Can we all start hyping that “silver dollar?” I want to sell mine for $15,000
I don't have time to read the whole thread, but I would like to take a few seconds to acknowledge that Morgans, my preferred series, were nothing more than a jobs program, essentially, for the mining industry, and nearly bankrupted the country by 1893.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
The Boondoggle of all Boondoggles
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
Interesting observation.
My primary difference of opinion with the theme of the original post is that I don't see any actual evidence that most collectors of the ASE actually prefer it as implied. There is a difference between "popular" measured by the number of collectors buying only what they can afford and an actual preference with the money to buy what they actually want. This is the reality with most low priced coinage (most ASE), except with those who are spending "noticeable" amounts which is a very low minority with the ASE.
I would assign an actual preference to some proportion who buy the 95-W, those paying current market for this coin, toning enthusiasts and those buying the 70's where the premium is higher but not hardly anyone else. I state "some proportion" because it's evident (to me) that many are primarily buying this series for financial reasons where collecting is secondary.
We can infer that a noticeable proportion of the Morgan dollar collector base usually (or always) prefer it because the financial outlay enables them to buy a (very) wide range of alternatives. That's far less true of the ASE.
You are simply wrong. I didn't say all younger collectors. Every dealer I know gets frequent phone calls about "collection of silver dollars" only to find out they are all silver eagles. The owner is almost always in their 30s and 40s
There are a lot of eagle collectors of all ages. But i guarantee almost everyone over 50 thinks Morgans or the like when you say silver dollars. The only people that would ever think ASEs when you say silver dollars are younger. In my experience.
Again, that is NOT EVERYONE under 50 or under 30.
Again, you are simply not reading what I wrote. Or possibly not understanding it.
And I also am not away all surprised that younger people also collect Morgan or Peace dollars. You are trying to argue a different point than the one I made.
If it was not for the HSN show with all the knifes and the guy with the fancy suit and the nice rolex watch I would of never started as a coin collector. Its just later that I realized they all scammed me! I guess its my own fault buyer beware.
It was not till after I arrived here like a new pup that I learned all those wonderful coins Mi#e sold me might spot at a later date and I over paid. But he seemed so nice on TV. He is a good talker and I still think he is very smart!
Akbeez its good to hear from you too.
Eric
Those frequent calls are probably from people that inherited their parents or grandparents tote of mint products spanning the last 30 years. The caller refers to them as “silver dollars” because they don’t know what they have and the words “silver” and “dollar” are right on the round.
Also, I didn’t say you said EVERY collector, or even imply that you did. You said A LOT, which could be any number to you. But from my experience, not even 2% of the young collectors - younger than 30 - collect ASEs. 2% is not A LOT to me.
Some people who inherit call them silver dollars. Those people also call Ikes silver dollars. I'm talking about people who actually collected them themselves. I've seen this people come in and buy them also.
It's not an insult to young collectors or anything else. It's not even inaccurate. Technically, silver eagles ARE silver dollars. It's just that old folks who started collecting before 1986 tend not to call them that. Believe me, every dealer I know has had multiple phone calls like that. We sort of laugh about it because when you hear "collection of silver dollars" and you tell them to "bring them down", you inevitably feel let down when it's a date set of ASE's.
Just went through some old threads on the 2009 Ultra High Relief (UHR) and the 2011 25th Anniversary 5 coin ASE set. The prices went parabolic, they were the hot things on eBay, people wrote about how valuable they would be, etc. etc. The 2011 ASE had all the drama of household limits and mint outages; eBay first instituted the requirement to paste your handle on a photo of the box in hand. Other listings were summarily cancelled. Dealers paid people to stand in line and purchase the UHR at one of the shows, and eventually the UHR was supported by the melting of all inventory not sold by the end of the year. All fun stories.
Check out sold prices on eBay today. UHRs were selling in 2011 for MS70 PL $6,000 to $7,000 range, and 70’s not proof-like were $3,800 to $4,750. Look at them today...a shadow of their former selves.
Same story with 25th ASE sets. They were selling for over $1,000 sealed. Graded 70s now sell for a 30% discount to that price. Ungraded sets even less.
It sure is fun to witness the hype and read the countless threads on the 2019 enhanced reverse proof ASE. Prices could remain high for a few years. But when the dust settles and the next “thing” comes along from the US Mint, this coin will fade too. Kodak and Xerox come to mind.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Kodak was founded in 1888...if this ASE remains on a high for 124 years...that is solid
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Ahhh, the 2011 5 coin set. We had the copious threads here on that one, too. I missed on the 2011 set and really wanted one. Also, I was on the cusp - received two mint emails that said I might get a set. Never did. To your point, I waited over five years to buy a set. I'm stubborn and didn't want to pay any speculative markup for the set. I do appreciate the member who sold me the unopened set.
Luckily I got the 2019. If not, I would wait the five years for the set to stabilize. Five years out, after the speculation runs its course, I'd imagine a price in the several hundred dollar range.
Of course, everything goes down, eventually stocks lose their value. Companies go out of business. Puppies pass.
But, for the moment, just for the moment, suspend disbelief and cynicism and enjoy the ride!
Eric. You must be losing your touch. Looks like the number of coins reported on another thread is 29,773. 😁