This is the kind of information that makes a forum like this so useful. Great discussion and I don't think CAC or the new ASE have been mentioned a single time!
I have a 1968-D half dollar with what I always assumed was an area of die polish below the designers initials, just to the right of the eagle's tail. The area is more mirror-like than I've captured in these photos. A closer look reveals fine striations that are perfectly vertically oriented:
@thebeav said:
I've seen shiny spots in the obverse fields of BU Mercs quite often. I've also wondered what caused it......
If it was indeed feed-finger damage, you have to wonder why it was almost always Mercs?
This is also quite common on high mint state 1943 Lincolns.
Interesting, can you share a picture of these marks on a Lincoln cent? Anyone else see them on any other denomination of coins?
The darkened area around PLUR and between the wheat stalk and UNUM appear dark in photos, but very shiny in hand.
My MS68 steel cent appears to have this too, in the same area.
I've noticed it on seemingly quite a few of the higher grade steel cents.
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
@Fairlaneman said:
The Shiny area is called "Die Burn". As Fred said it is from over polishing of the die.
Ken
@Fairlaneman said:
The Shiny area is called "Die Burn". As Fred said it is from over polishing of the die.
Ken
If there are one or two very small shiny spots the Mercury Dime will it lower the TPG services grade? So if the coins is of MS 67-68 quality does it drop a grade or so, or no effect?
@Fairlaneman said:
The Shiny area is called "Die Burn". As Fred said it is from over polishing of the die.
Ken
@Fairlaneman said:
The Shiny area is called "Die Burn". As Fred said it is from over polishing of the die.
Ken
If there are one or two very small shiny spots the Mercury Dime will it lower the TPG services grade? So if the coins is of MS 67-68 quality does it drop a grade or so, or no effect?
I have several MS67 Mercury dimes and have seen others at that grade with this effect, I have not seen that many MS68's so I cannot say if at that level it is frowned upon.
@Fairlaneman said:
The Shiny area is called "Die Burn". As Fred said it is from over polishing of the die.
Ken
What they said. That is what we used to call them back in my days at Heritage when we were doing some of the super-high-grade Mercury dimes collections such as Joshua and Ally Walsh. I never saw them appear quite similarly on larger silver coins, though, that I recall.
Kind regards,
George
George did the burn marks on the super high grade coins affect or lower the grade slightly given by the TPG services? Or did they have no effect on the high grades given
@FredWeinberg said:
As I mentioned before, the damage from modern (about 1997 to date)
Feeder Finger Scrapes are very different from the 'shiny' areas on the
older type coins we've been discussing in this thread.
I had asked about these marks I found on many quarters to find out they were Feeder Finger Scrapes.
Would a "die burn" be smooth markings or scratches? Could they mimic each other?
@Fairlaneman said:
The Shiny area is called "Die Burn". As Fred said it is from over polishing of the die.
Ken
What they said. That is what we used to call them back in my days at Heritage when we were doing some of the super-high-grade Mercury dimes collections such as Joshua and Ally Walsh. I never saw them appear quite similarly on larger silver coins, though, that I recall.
Kind regards,
George
George did the burn marks on the super high grade coins affect or lower the grade slightly given by the TPG services? Or did they have no effect on the high grades given
The "die burn" marks had no effect that I remember on grade. Here is one of the coins in the Joshua II collection that shows the phenomenon on both sides. I can't swear that I cataloged this exact coin, but the writing could certainly be mine. The feeder finger theory is interesting (and possible, I guess) but there could certainly be more than one cause for shiny areas of overpolishing on coins. It seems to me that a lot of the coins showing the die burn seemed to be from the 1920s as well. I do not recall them having the always-vertical striations that seem from the discussion above to indicate feeder finger scrapes. Maybe a die shortage led to overpolishing? Photos are obviously Heritage's:
@Fairlaneman said:
The Shiny area is called "Die Burn". As Fred said it is from over polishing of the die.
Ken
What they said. That is what we used to call them back in my days at Heritage when we were doing some of the super-high-grade Mercury dimes collections such as Joshua and Ally Walsh. I never saw them appear quite similarly on larger silver coins, though, that I recall.
Kind regards,
George
George did the burn marks on the super high grade coins affect or lower the grade slightly given by the TPG services? Or did they have no effect on the high grades given
The "die burn" marks had no effect that I remember on grade. Here is one of the coins in the Joshua II collection that shows the phenomenon on both sides. I can't swear that I cataloged this exact coin, but the writing could certainly be mine. The feeder finger theory is interesting (and possible, I guess) but there could certainly be more than one cause for shiny areas of overpolishing on coins. It seems to me that a lot of the coins showing the die burn seemed to be from the 1920s as well. I do not recall them having the always-vertical striations that seem from the discussion above to indicate feeder finger scrapes. Maybe a die shortage led to overpolishing? Photos are obviously Heritage's:
Thanks George for your reply. Pictures aren’t clear, I can’t see the shiny spot. Can you rephotograph please, maybe with a circle around the spots. Thanks
@Walkerlover yeah, no, I can't, I lack the tools. And the photographs aren't mine. The shiny spots show as dark areas on the slab shots and shiny, featureless areas on the closeups. Behind the neck of Liberty all the way from just above the date to the T of LIBERTY, reverse the shiny patch above PLURIBUS. There are also some similar areas (but smaller) immediately in front of Liberty's forehead and perhaps below OF AM (I would have to have the coin back in hand for that last though).
Comments
This is the kind of information that makes a forum like this so useful. Great discussion and I don't think CAC or the new ASE have been mentioned a single time!
I have a 1968-D half dollar with what I always assumed was an area of die polish below the designers initials, just to the right of the eagle's tail. The area is more mirror-like than I've captured in these photos. A closer look reveals fine striations that are perfectly vertically oriented:
Are these shiny areas more indicative of high grade Mercury dimes? It seems like the high grade ones I've seen have that.
How about the totally original Morgan dollars with frost and a white substance on the surfaces, what is that from?
Are these shiny marks by the L and Y in liberty die polish.
My MS68 steel cent appears to have this too, in the same area.
I've noticed it on seemingly quite a few of the higher grade steel cents.
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
I’m in the aggressive Die Polishing camp until it is proven otherwise.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
If there are one or two very small shiny spots the Mercury Dime will it lower the TPG services grade? So if the coins is of MS 67-68 quality does it drop a grade or so, or no effect?
I have several MS67 Mercury dimes and have seen others at that grade with this effect, I have not seen that many MS68's so I cannot say if at that level it is frowned upon.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
George did the burn marks on the super high grade coins affect or lower the grade slightly given by the TPG services? Or did they have no effect on the high grades given
I had asked about these marks I found on many quarters to find out they were Feeder Finger Scrapes.
Would a "die burn" be smooth markings or scratches? Could they mimic each other?
The "die burn" marks had no effect that I remember on grade. Here is one of the coins in the Joshua II collection that shows the phenomenon on both sides. I can't swear that I cataloged this exact coin, but the writing could certainly be mine. The feeder finger theory is interesting (and possible, I guess) but there could certainly be more than one cause for shiny areas of overpolishing on coins. It seems to me that a lot of the coins showing the die burn seemed to be from the 1920s as well. I do not recall them having the always-vertical striations that seem from the discussion above to indicate feeder finger scrapes. Maybe a die shortage led to overpolishing? Photos are obviously Heritage's:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/mercury-dimes/dimes/1923-10c-ms68-full-bands-pcgs-pcgs-4939-/a/1143-4505.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515
Kind regards,
George
@Walkerlover yeah, no, I can't, I lack the tools. And the photographs aren't mine. The shiny spots show as dark areas on the slab shots and shiny, featureless areas on the closeups. Behind the neck of Liberty all the way from just above the date to the T of LIBERTY, reverse the shiny patch above PLURIBUS. There are also some similar areas (but smaller) immediately in front of Liberty's forehead and perhaps below OF AM (I would have to have the coin back in hand for that last though).