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What is worse? The Astros documenting with a camera what pitches are coming or deflating a football?
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What is worse? The Astros documenting with a camera what pitches are coming or deflating a football?
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
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Really it’s not even close
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
Shouldn't it be compared to "Spygate" instead of "Deflategate"?
Deflate Gate was ridiculous, and I said so at the time. But, there is an actual rule regarding ball pressure (although there was no evidence at all that this rule was violated by Tom Brady).
Regarding the Astros, what rule are they accused of violating? Quote it please, so we can decide for ourselves whether the Astros broke that rule.
Shouldn't it be compared to "Spygate" instead of "Deflategate"?> @dallasactuary said:
Brady didn't deflate the balls, but if a defender on the other team can immediately tell the ball is underinflated, Brady knew. Not that big a deal.
Accused of using video to help steal signs and when a breaking ball was coming they beat on a garbage can to let the hitter know what was coming.
Yes, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. A good ol' fashioned juicy baseball scandal. I'm going to be disappointed if fake mustaches weren't used during the Astros secret surveillance operations. You just can't have a good secret operation without fake mustaches.
I hope everyone knows that the Giants stole signs way back in 1951 when the overcame a 13 1/2 game deficit to win the pennant.
"The Giants stole the pennant, the Giants stole the pennant, the Giants stole the pennant!"
Come on now. There may not be a rule in the rule book that says if a pitcher strikes you out, then you're not allowed to run to the mound and punch him in the mouth - it's common sense.
It's common sense not to do what the Astros did. It's blatant and obvious cheating.
I almost couldn't believe it when i read the story. Fine the living chit out of them - big time! 💸
If they cheated, they should be punished.
Common sense? Seriously? Teams have been stealing signs since there have been signs, and MLB didn't see fit to make a rule against it until this year. And it's not clear that the Astros even violated that rule.
This non-event falls into exactly the same category as Deflate Gate, or it will in the terribly unlikely event that MLB imposes any penalty. Signs have been stolen and balls have been underinflated in frigid weather since forever, and there is no team that has not been "guilty" of these non-crimes. Brady was singled out for punishment for violating a rule every other team had violated because he was Bill Belichick's QB, and for absolutely no other reason. Since I can't think of any reason why MLB would want to look foolish singling out the Astros for violating a non-existent rule that every other team has also violated, for the moment I assume that this will simply fade away, as it should.
And there is a rule against unsportsmanlike conduct that has been understood since the rule was written to include fighting. It applies to conduct by players on the field of play, or to language from the field or dugout. The "conduct" in the Astros "scandal" consists of the batter using his ears. There is no rule governing assistant coaches banging on drums, and MLB has no authority to fine the Astros, big time or otherwise.
No skin in the game here, but in an era of cameras that can read the time on Dimeman's watch from 300 miles in space, the protection of a visible signal ludicrous.
Maybe they can text the pitch call going forward.
<<< Teams have been stealing signs since there have been signs >>>
Oh please stop already.
Pasted:
"which included a centerfield camera hooked up to a TV monitor in the clubhouse"
I'm not elaborating further on this because the cheating is so blatantly obvious.
Case closed. Very large fine to be announced.
I'm not exactly equating the two incidents using cameras, of course not...but that pervert who cut the hole in the motel door and videotaped Erin Andrews, i doubt if there was a specific law stating "No cutting of holes in a motel door and videotaping the guests."
There didn't need to be a specific law because it's common sense that was a felony criminal activity.
It's common sense that what the Astros did was clearly against the competitive spirit of the legitimate game of baseball.
LOL. So they violated the "stevek says it's blatantly obvious" rule, eh? You know what else the Astros did? They chewed gum!!! Not only that it was blatantly obvious!!!! Hang 'em from the highest tree!!! Wait, there's no rule against chewing gum you say? Even when it's blatantly obvious? Well, it has something in common with centerfield cameras then; there's no rule against either one. That teams should be fined because they offended stevek's sensibilities isn't a rule, either.
So Dallas wouldn't mind seeing Eddie Gaedel midgets come to the plate? How about using robots instead of humans to play the game? The absurdity can go on and on, and it sounds as though you'd be in favor of it.
Well I'm not.
What appears to separate us is that I don't suffer from the delusion that what I am in favor of or not in favor of is relevant when determining whether penalties should be applied to a team that hasn't violated any rules.
And the guy who videotaped Erin Andrews violated multiple actual laws. Laws that were passed by governing authorities and written down. Or are you saying that you are in favor of putting people in prison who haven't broken any laws? Sounds like you are, and that's a hell of a lot scarier than some billionaires fining other billionaires.
Ofcourse it was ludicrous and a complete joke, it don’t bother me anymore though since the revenge tour was complete by winning the Super Bowl 🤷♂️
Tampering with equipment is the worse offense IMHO.
I think that Abner Doubleday wouldn't have any problem with the way baseball has evolved for the most part.
That being said, I'd be sure that Doubleday and the other early founders of the game, without question would have a big problem with what the Astros did.
We all know it was cheating on an unacceptable scale, including you, so please stop with the silly spins.
The Astros should receive a nice heavy fine, perhaps ten million dollars or more will be sufficient, and be done with it.
Forget monetary fines, that’s useless when there is an unlimited amount. The best way to deal with this is to hurt them where it counts, take away a roster spot for the season, like a reduce a pitcher spot and make them deal with it.
There is a directive dating to 2001 that prohibits the use of electronic devices in the dugout or the use of binoculars.
In 2010, MLB reprimanded the Phillies when bullpen coach Mick Billmeyer used binoculars to steal signs against the Rockies.
No team or player has been punished for stealing signs.
Taken from an article by David Schoenfield ESPN Senior Writer, Sept 5 2017.
I guess it's not that big of a deal, neither was "deflategate".
Now "bountygate" was a big deal, paying bonuses to players for injuring the opposition is the worst.
<<< No team or player has been punished for stealing signs. >>>
I've got no problem at all with say a runner on second base signaling the batter. I doubt if anyone has a problem with that. Frankly, it probably distracts the batter and hurts him more than helps.
But we're talking about sophisticated cameras and electronic devices here.
Sorry I have no leeway whatsoever on this. The Astros should simply have known better not to do it. Call it common sense or whatever but it was flat out cheating - there is no other better word to describe it.
I agree, punish the yell out of them thru roster spots, draft picks, free agency, and why not hit them in their bank account as well.
All that being said, i will refrain from calling for further punishment because i don't wish to upset Dallas and his affinity towards letting cheater's cheat and polluting the game. If Dallas was the baseball commissioner, he might award the Astros a trophy for innovative thinking.
MLB doesn't seem to mind. In the article I quoted from the Red Sox had apparently been stealing signs. I don't even remember hearing about it. The Yankees and Indians were two other teams accused.
If MLB is going to continue to do nothing about it, then why wouldn't any team do it if they wanted to.
YES I agree it's "flat out cheating", but the MLB doesn't seem to care. They didn't care about steroids either.
The Patriots would have won that game using a sardine as the game ball. Now, is it just one more piece of evidence that Belichick plays fast and loose with the rules? This bitter Rams fan says "yes". But DeflateGate is just dumb. So is putting "Gate" at the end of every controversial issue. Super, super dumb.
Stealing signs with a camera is pretty effin' bad. Dunno if y'all have seen this video. If not, check it. Pretty damning "evidence" if you ask me. (warning - some language)
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
if found guilty they should forfeit round 1-3 draft picks for three years.
Quite sickening to watch that video if ya love the game of baseball.
Or ban hookers from the clubhouse.
It was hilarious, but I no longer love the game of professional baseball.
no vote.
cheating is cheating.
now, which is stupider, meaning video & audio footprints left behind?
Alex Cora is up to his neck in this
He tried to get some sort of apple watch cheat rolling here too didn't he?
The Astros crossed the line , BIG TIME....
This has to be the biggest line of BS ever! How do you expect anybody to ever take your dribble seriously!
and there are rules about what is allowed to go on with regards to stealing signs.
but guess what? cameras, telecom and apple watches are not included in that verbiage.
its cheating, period.
But that is why we love baseball. Or did. It is still a kid's game. These are world champion type players banging a bat into a garbage can to signal the batter. I mean c'mon, you have to appreciate that. Sure it is a dumb thing to do, but a $200,000,000 payroll and 1960's sandlot cheating technology. I mean, gee whiz.
The best part is that the ‘Stros cheated and still lost 😂
@perkdog...........leads to the question ... they won in '17 ... did they cheat in the same manner this past year??
look at the hitting at home versus away ! Felger and Mazz dug into this , at home they hit for power because they knew the pitch , on the road they hit for average .
Another point they raised , this sign stealing garbage is adding 20 minutes to every F###king game by adding time to every pitch where the catchers and pitchers are trying to conceal the type of pitch , their take , put commo gear in the pitcher and catchers hats and be done with it
the astros are best at sign stealing but every team is doing it league wide. give them radios and lets move on from this
Probably 🤷♂️
Well, the Houston Astros have finally bought a new team Airplane.
Contraire. It’s exactly why I hate it. They took a child's game and incorporated espionage type tacts.
Absolutely zero probs with baserunner staying on second trying to steal the signs, no prob w/ watching the 3rd base coach for tells and no probs w/ teammates signaling w/ trashcan lids, whistling or whatever. All those imply guesstimations and risking on probables.
Implanting a camera w/ some sort extremely fast audio relay to prompt the trashcan beating not only crosses the line of cheating, it destroys it.
And as far as the rating vs the patriots thing, i am not that well versed in the scandal but assume that the other side used the exact same balls. If this is the case, then I rebuke my stance on cheating bc the astros certainly didn't let the other team use their cameras when they were batting, right?
Cheating is cheating, but Astros certainly elevated it if so.
Self quoting here !
Alex Cora learns to cheat in Houston , comes to Boston and wins a world Series !! then they miss the playoffs ??????
Did the league catch the Red Sox and put a stop to something but not say anything?
If so it tells you that they wouldn't have said anything about Houston but it got out another way and they had to.
Also remember earlier in this season the whole juiced baseball debate? what are we missing there?
Each team uses their own footballs.
Same concept then as Astros then, imo.
Cheating is cheating.
Well sure. It seems to be, though I could not find the rule with an abbreviated Google search.
I put it on par with bringing recording equipment to a concert. Rules prohibited the practice until everyone had an Iphone or Galaxy in their pocket. Sign stealing will be part of the game now like it or not.
The banging was absolutely idiotic and should not have worked as long as it did.
If the games were not so damn long, I might become a fan again as that was an Eddie Gaedel throwback of the highest order.
+1
Since the Astros are cheating, i took it upon myself to get in a cheat post on this thread.
I certainly dont claim to know the MLB rule book like the gospel, but suffice to say this excerpt is enough for me;
As far as Gaedel, totally different concept. There was no rule stating a midget could not be used to effectively minimize the strike zone, even though it was more of a PR stunt and pretty good one at that because afterwards there was a rule established prohibiting such.
As I see it, definitely use the rules to your advantage!
if there is no rule, such as gaedel, then exploit the hell outta it until there is!
Grey is grey.
But the Astros clearly broke them and knew it.
You shouldn't be allowed to use electronic equipment to see other teams signals...………...or another NFL team's practice (lol)
I don't think that that is from the rule book. It is a quote. Until I see the actual rule, I will agree with Dallasactuary. He has a high batting average on matters related to baseball.