1900+ Gold, 100% Trueview, what to upgrade?

Pedzola

Recently hit a personal goal, all 8 coins in my gold type set now have a trueview. Final coin was my $2.5 Lib.

Here is the full set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/era-type-sets/20th-century-gold-major-design-type-set-circulation-strikes-1900-1933/publishedset/174178

So big question now is, what is the best first candidate for upgrade? I am pretty happy with my $2.5, $5, and $10 libs. I would eventually like to upgrade all remaining by 1 level, after that I think I'm priced out. I have looked at a ton of 66 Saints without pulling the trigger. I think my least favorite of the bunch is the $2.5 indian. I like my $5 indian a lot despite it being the lowest grade coin in this set. The $10 Indian I think has remarkably clean fields for a 64. I have not seen a 65 worth the upgrade cost. So in any case the $20 Saint should be the easiest to upgrade, but its about finding the right coin that wont break the bank (i.e. no cac).

What does the forum think? Welcome any feedback.

winesteven

It’s ok to buy non-CAC to save money as you upgrade, as long as you understand the reason that particular coin did not merit a CAC. Is it because it is a “C” coin that is not solid for the grade? Is it due to some surface issue(s), and if so, what are they? As long as you understand that, and are comfortable with that information, then it’s ok.

By the way, nice set. Congratulations!
Happy Hunting!

Pedzola

Thanks for the input. You have some very nice coins in your #5 set in this category. I like your $10 Indian in particular.

I would be guessing at the reason a particular coin didnt cac. But I assume its much more likely that most coins Im looking at have not been sent to cac at all.

I'm comfortable with my own eyes if the pictures are good enough. (Generally, Im not going to buy a coin without a trueview.) So if the coin looks good to me, and price is right, thats the criteria...

I have been looking at Saints so I know there are nice looking saints without CAC stickers. So for me, I would rather wait to find a nice and more affordable non-cac Saint. Most sellers have poor images, so cant evaluate. Unfortunately I dont have anywhere to see nice higher grade gold in person. I am really relying online sales and trueviews.

winesteven

@Pedzola - While going to large coin shows is an excellent way to see a lot of high graded gold, like you, I don’t have much opportunity for that, other than January FUN. I’d like to share my thoughts, with a solution at the end:

1. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that slabbed gold in the grades you’ll be purchasing have not been sent to CAC. Since CAC in general is tough on gold with a low percentage of success getting the sticker, as you’ve discovered, there’s a two-tier market. Due to that relatively large price differential, in my opinion, virtually the only slabbed gold not having yet been to CAC are coins that are still in collectors hands for many years. For coins for sale, whether by a dealer or in auction, it makes absolutely no sense for the seller to not first pay just $14.50 to see if the coin merits a CAC, due to the financial reward if successful.

2. I have found very often that coins in hand look different than high resolution photos, including True Views, despite today’s technology. Sometimes the actual coin is worse, sometimes it’s better.

3. As noted in my previous post above, in my opinion it’s perfectly fine to buy non-CAC that YOU like, but you must understand the likely reason(s) it did not CAC. See #4 for the solution, which I have used successfully.

4. Work with knowledgeable dealers and key numismatic personnel at auction houses that are honest and unbiased (don’t laugh, it’s not an oxymoron). Let them know what you want, the specific coin you’re interested in, and ask their honest opinion as to why the coin didn’t CAC. The honest ones will share their true opinion.

Happy Hunting!

Pedzola

Thanks again - I appreciate the insight and opinions of more experienced collectors. I havent been doing this for long.

As for your comment #2, I'm going to shamefully admit that I look at pictures of my collection much more than I actually handle the coins, which are locked away. So regardless of what they look like in hand the images are critical.

But yes even TV's can be "off." Even the $2.5 lib I posted above, it does not look as orange in person.
But I don't mind - brings a little diversity to the set!

winesteven

All sounds good.
Steve

MFeld

You stated “I would eventually like to upgrade all remaining by 1 level, ..”.
If that’s the case, rather than deciding ahead of time which coin to upgrade first, let the upgrade come/talk to you. In other words, don't force yourself into a box and limit your options, unnecessarily. If you see a coin that would represent a solid upgrade, you love it and it’s reasonably priced, go for it. Otherwise, wait.

golden

I would upgrade the $2.5 Indian first.

davewesen

The set looks mighty fine as it is.

If you want to improve your ranking in the set to top10 or top5, you need to go after the ones worth the most points first, and that would be the $5's and $10's.

Then you need to decide what to do with the ones replaced, keep or sell for your next upgrade.

I might consider starting another set.

winesteven

I truly believe the advice given above by @MFeld is clearly the best. What you're looking for are not commodities, so when one comes along that YOU like, that's what you should get! Why pass up a gorgeous coin if it's not the very top one of the eight on your list, but is still one of only eight that you'll need? Clear as day! As I was building my various Type Sets, I made a list of the coins I was looking to upgrade, and what grade I wanted. There's no need to avoid upgrades of some of your coins while waiting for others to appear.

Pedzola

Thanks all for the advice - which I agree with - if a nice $10 comes up I certainly wouldnt say "too bad I'm only looking for a $20 right now!" If the right coin comes up I would jump on it.

When I upgrade I will want to sell or trade in the lower grade coin. Unfortunately I have a track record of losing big on every coin I have ever sold, so maybe I should just start a 2nd set...

Pedzola

This popped up a few days ago and I thought it would be a great upgrade (pic below). Should be in hand tomorrow. I find myself more attracted to gold with a bit of color lately... maybe a theme is emerging for my "keepers." Still keeping an eye out for others.

ReadyFireAim

@Pedzola said:
Unfortunately I have a track record of losing big on every coin I have ever sold, so maybe I should just start a 2nd set...

Yep...Me also You could expand to the 12 piece set
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/199
Nice 1/4 eagle BTW

Pedzola

I think upgrading these 8 coins will keep my coin budget fully allocated... lol. Maybe some day I will branch out.

I am trying out a new dealer Friday to see what the damage is on a couple of coins I have to sell. Hopefully I can keep the loss to a minimum.

Really trying to be more selective on upgrades, dont want to have to upgrade anything twice.

Pedzola

Purchased another upgrade last week - awaiting reholder w/gold shield, but here are the dealer images for now. My first CAC coin - crossed to the dark side. I'm sure winesteven will chime in. Lol Im not a convert yet though. Anxious to see the trueviews on this one:

winesteven

@Pedzola said:
Purchased another upgrade last week - awaiting reholder w/gold shield, but here are the dealer images for now. My first CAC coin - crossed to the dark side. I'm sure winesteven will chime in. Lol Im not a convert yet though. Anxious to see the trueviews on this one:

Yes, you have me pegged, but that’s only because of my logic. With your reholder, your cert # should be the same, so for a cost of only $3 plus round trip shipping, the CAC sticker will be automatically replaced. The MS64 $5 Indians sell for several hundred dollars more with a CAC than without a CAC. They also sell easier. So when this coin eventually gets sold, whether by you or your heirs, why in the world would you not spend just the few dollars now to get the sticker reapplied?

Pedzola

So this brings up an interesting point. Since you can verify the cac status on the website from the pcgs ID number, why do you need the sticker? It is still a cac coin even without the sticker on the slab.

Re: eventual sale.... I am hoping that this will be my final round of upgrades on this set... and it seems to me I will probably have them for a very long time. I'm 37.
In 20, 30, 40 years... the market could be very different. So I'm less concerned about resale value today.

Who knows if cac will even still be a thing years in the future. Maybe slabs and grading will have evolved into something else entirely. Or maybe there will be a "super cac" that is the new kingmaker. SCAC.

In any case I am blowing through my coin budget quickly lately. I have another upgrade to share when it arrives. I dont think I will catch up to you on the regular registry with my planned upgrades WS, but I may be able to go up another spot or 2 from #9 today on this 20th c gold type set.

winesteven

@Pedzola, yes, all your theories may be correct, but we’re talking about literally only a few dollars. For such a tiny amount, some may say it’s silly not to get the CAC automatically reapplied. Instead of having the attitude of this being “the dark side”, you should think of this as “finally seeing the light”!

Separately, I truly would be glad for you if over time you did pass me in the rankings. I mean it.

One last thing to consider - you may have noticed that 7 of the coins in my 8 Piece Gold Type Set have a “+”. While I purchased some of them that way, I got the others via Reconsideration (that method retains the same cert number on a grade increase, so if the increase is just a “+”, the CAC will be automatically reapplied). Your new lovely $5 Indian has a cert number starting with 21, so that was graded BEFORE PCGS started using plus grades. As such, it might be worth a shot sending it in for Reconsideration. My biggest gain in this set was my $20 Liberty, which I bought on eBay as a MS64+ with a CAC. It got upgraded to a 65, and then subsequently got upgraded to a 65+.

Good luck.

Pedzola

Thanks for the insight on the plus grades - I knew there was a time before pluses but I didnt know it could be discerned from cert number. Your $20 lib is very nice, hard to believe it was originally a 64. I'll keep this in mind. I tried for a plus with a regrade on my $10 lib unsuccessfully. I think my $10 indian is pretty clean for a 64 and might +, but my broader plan is to get a nicer 65 for this one.

The sticker indeed would not be expensive to reapply but shipping always gives me stress. Have had some valuable items lost or destroyed in the past. For me, I'm ok with online verification without the sticker.

winesteven

Understood!

Pedzola

Well, here is the latest addition...

I am pretty happy with this one.
Looks great in hand - except for a scuff on the holder on the reverse.

I was originally planning to hold out for a 1900 in 65 but the + lured me, which in anything but a 1904 would be out of my price range.

I'm pretty sure the next upgrade is going to be a Saint... we'll see.

CoinJunkie

@Pedzola said:

Well, here is the latest addition...

Beautiful coin!

Pedzola

Thanks! Got the Trueview back on my new $5 as well, I think it looks super:

Pedzola

Matches my $2.5 posted above and also the look of my $5 lib

Hemispherical

Fantastic @Pedzola!