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Tooled 1804 8 Reales

Any thoughts on why anyone would do this? I'll have the coin in-hand in a couple of weeks to take measurements and better pictures and will update this post.


Comments

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Notice no one has replied. That's because there is no answer to your question. Folks have been doing all kinds of things to coins since they were first coined!

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I should probably highlight the area I believe was tooled. > @Insider2 said:

    Notice no one has replied. That's because there is no answer to your question. Folks have been doing all kinds of things to coins since they were first coined!

    Perhaps it's not obvious what area I'm talking about:

  • Senator32Senator32 Posts: 407 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe it had corrosion in that area? Either way...sad :(

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like corrosion, "Tooling" usually refers to moving metal so it often shows up as scratches. There is a patch of scratches in the obverse field. If the area you indicate looks altered, perhaps someone tried to smooth out the corrosion.

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Look at the shape of the letters as compared to the original example above, as well as an extra dot between 8 and R in the denomination.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Then to answer your question, the coin was tooled probably to remove corrosion or hide damage..

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  • fluffy155fluffy155 Posts: 265 ✭✭✭✭

    Have Chinese counterfeits ever replicated plata agria?

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fluffy155 said:
    Have Chinese counterfeits ever replicated plata agria?

    I haven't seen one replicated, but I am not ruling out some kind of planchet stress during striking with counterfeit dies.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoKopeiki said:

    @fluffy155 said:
    Have Chinese counterfeits ever replicated plata agria?

    I haven't seen one replicated, but I am not ruling out some kind of planchet stress during striking with counterfeit dies.

    There are stress marks all over your coin. So far, that's a good sign of authenticity.

  • BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coin looks pretty good, but lettering at 9 o'clock on the reverse does look messed up.

    Wouldn't chase after this coin. Would need a price concession to maybe think about it. Charles IV was a bad king, and I disposed of many of my coins from that reign.

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2019 2:40PM

    @Insider2 said:

    @TwoKopeiki said:

    @fluffy155 said:
    Have Chinese counterfeits ever replicated plata agria?

    I haven't seen one replicated, but I am not ruling out some kind of planchet stress during striking with counterfeit dies.

    There are stress marks all over your coin. So far, that's a good sign of authenticity.

    That's what @fluffy155 implied. The coin displays a metal stress effect called "plata agria" that's often seen on portrait 8 reales. The general belief is that this effect was present on the planchets and was due to the process of rolling out a planchet strip. It definitely adds legitimacy to the coin, but as I have mentioned before - I dont rule out the possibility of a die struck counterfeit potentially having similar stress fractures. I don't think the coin is a counterfeit, but will analyze it once I receive it. I paid more than what it's worth, in my opinion, and will most likely end up sending it back to the seller after documenting it.

  • jgennjgenn Posts: 744 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would guess retooled die more than tooled surface.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jgenn said:
    I would guess retooled die more than tooled surface.

    If someone tolled the die, what would it look like on a coin?

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jgenn said:
    I would guess retooled die more than tooled surface.

    You're thinking a transfer die that was "improved"?

    Should be pretty obvious in-hand. Will post better photos and measurements once i receive it.

  • jgennjgenn Posts: 744 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2019 6:47PM

    Maybe a genuine die that has been worked on to remove problems from rust. I see scattered bumps on the surface from rust pitting. Perhaps some letters have been repunched and/or recut and a big rust pit got turned into a dot.

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Trying to add the Plus on the coin to add value is the only assumption I can gather. But it’s anyone’s guess.

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2019 7:31AM

    @Insider2 said:

    @jgenn said:
    I would guess retooled die more than tooled surface.

    If someone tolled the die, what would it look like on a coin?

    What would stress cracks look like on a transfer die?

    The only things I see on the coin that indicates it may not be genuine are the perfectly round lumps. These can be caused by heat during a repair. I recall that this coin is certified as genuine. This counts a little.

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