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What constituted a "bag" in the various Seated Liberty denominations?

topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

Anyone know how the seated coins were originally distributed?
Bags? Boxes? Kegs?
Half dimes same face value quantity as dimes? Quarters through dollars?
I assume dollars were $1000 by the bags discovered in the 1960s but have no info on the minors.

Comments

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    An excellent question, to which I have no answer.

    ($1000 in 1853-1873 fractional silver contained an even 720 ounces of silver.)

    TD

    Just asking if the 720 oz of silver would have been relevant at the time ?
    They were delivering "Dollars" [and cents] and not "silver".
    I may be wrong. :)

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

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  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When first produced in 1838, the Seated Liberty Quarter had a composition of 90% silver and 10% copper, which would remain the same until the end of the series. However, the weight was changed on various occasions. The first issues weighed 103 grains (6.68 grams), but this was lowered in 1853 to 96 grains (6.22 grams). In 1873 the denomination saw a small increase in weight, this time to 96.5 grains (6.25 grams). All issues have a diameter of 24.3 mm and a reeded edge.

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1630Boston said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    An excellent question, to which I have no answer.

    ($1000 in 1853-1873 fractional silver contained an even 720 ounces of silver.)

    TD

    Just asking if the 720 oz of silver would have been relevant at the time ?
    They were delivering "Dollars" [and cents] and not "silver".
    I may be wrong. :)

    At the time,, was there any distinction? The whole point of the weight standard was to have appropriate intrinsic value.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There very definitely WAS a distinction. The weight reduction of 1853 did NOT alter the weight of the dollar coin.

    Thus 20 half dimes, 10 dimes, 4 quarters, or 2 half dollars weighed less than one Dollar.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • EbeneezerEbeneezer Posts: 263 ✭✭✭

    Very good question. I should have my new book From Mine to Mint by Roger W. Burdette tomorrow which deals exclusively with early mint practices and processes. There should be some mention in there or on the include cd containing official mint records. I'll keep you posted if/when I find out.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1630Boston said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    An excellent question, to which I have no answer.

    ($1000 in 1853-1873 fractional silver contained an even 720 ounces of silver.)

    TD

    Just asking if the 720 oz of silver would have been relevant at the time ?
    They were delivering "Dollars" [and cents] and not "silver".
    I may be wrong. :)

    Well, it made for simpler math when toting up the quantity of silver used, which they had to keep track of.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptainBluntCaptainBlunt Posts: 179 ✭✭✭

    Doing research on another topic
    I saw the P Mint send the SFBM
    5 bags of Seated half dimes amounting to a total
    face value of $500. Year 1862
    So $100 a bag or 2,000 pieces per bag
    I don’t know if this was the standard

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    An excellent question, to which I have no answer.

    During the Liberty Seated era the silver coin production was typically delivered from the Coiner to the Cashier in $1,000 increments, because it simplified the accounting for the silver used. ($1000 in 1853-1873 fractional silver contained an even 720 ounces of silver.) However, that is no proof that the coins left the Mints in $1,000 bags. You could ship two $500 bags, or four $250 bags, or ten $100 bags, or whatever, and call it a $1000 delivery.

    I was recently surprised to find out that cents in the 1920's left the Mints in $20 bags. The $50 bags apparently started during WW2, and there was an overlap where both sizes were used.

    TD

    Is there not proof? Many bags of silver dollars have been seen. All had 1,000 coins (Redfield, GSA, etc).

    bob

    I believe dimes in the early 1900's were sometimes shipped in kegs (I've read as much but have no personal knowledge on such).
    Maybe the mint just used what was convenient?

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $1000 bags of dollars are a given. I have no idea what a bag of Seated Dimes or Half Dimes was.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    According to a learned numismatist:

    "Regarding the above question, here is a little more you can relay to the OP ---

    Prior to the Civil War, most coins were shipped in wooden kegs. Size of each keg depended on the quantity of coins requested. Keep in mind that depositors were able to request (i.e., require) payment in specific denominations. This meant the Philadelphia Mint and later the branch mints, had to tailor packaging to the customer's requirements. Cents and half-cents were the only routine exceptions.

    Banks and the Mints preferred quantities in even $50 or $100 units since this simplified counting. Canvas bags and even cloth lined envelopes were also used - all depended on what the depositor wanted. As minted quantities increased, and shipping distances and costs increased, there was a gradual change over to canvas "duck" bags. All gold was in $5,000 face bags; silver dollars and halves were in $1,000 bags (sometimes in boxes), quarters were in $100 or $200 bags, dimes and half-dimes were usually in $50 or $100 bags. Three cent silver pieces were commonly shipped in $9.99 (333 pieces) bags or envelopes or occasionally small rolls. Post Offices sometimes got special package sizes to suit demand at their facilities.

    Example. On May 19, 1837 the Post Master in New York City requested:
    $1,000 in dimes
    2 Kegs of cents, $360
    and returned 1 keg of half cents, $80.

    Thus 10,000 dimes would have been in a keg.
    18,000 copper cents in a keg, and
    16,000 copper half cents in a keg.

    Hope this helps."

    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    YAY! Thanks!

    That would explain a lot about quantities minted vs. quantities existing.
    :)

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