Do you think you have a Doubled Die?
messydesk
Posts: 20,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
One question that comes up frequently is whether something is a doubled die or just machine (or mechanical, or ejection) doubling. These are two really good guides for answering that question. Since a picture is worth a thousand words, I'll start with this diagram by Charles Daughtrey (coppercoins.com) illustrating the difference between machine doubling and a doubled die (called "hub doubling" in the diagram).
I'll follow that with this link to a monograph by JT Stanton about doubled dies and their evil mimics. JT wrote this years ago, and it's still an outstanding article about the differences. I include it as an appendix to the class notes of the Morgan Dollar class I teach at the ANA Summer Seminar.
If this is question encountered frequently enough that the mods think this is worth pinning in this forum, great. If not, that's fine, too.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
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This is really helpful thanks!
Collector
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This is just one of JT's contributions to numismatics. After I call folks who send in coins that are not true DD's, I include a copy of JT's article. THANKS for posting it.
Came across this. It’s a true DD. Modern shielded penny.
Pics aren't sharp enough to see anything. How do you know it's a true DD? Does it match with a variety on DoubledDie.com or Varirty Vista?
Currently, three known. Which do you have?
Focused pics are needed for any reasonable opinion.
http://varietyvista.com/01e LC Doubled Dies Vol 5/DDOs 2015 cent.htm
Date or lettering, pick one and focus in. Peace Roy
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I have # 4
Doubled die is easiest to see on the top and bottom of the 1 in the large picture above.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I know it’s pareidolia but it’s a cool looking king cobra pareidolia snake.
@messydesk Thanks for the pic in the OP. It is great. I have seen it many times, but many people have not. Perhaps this should be pinned/stickied?
Besides studying that diagram, some great advice is to look for DDs on coins with known DDs. I cannot tell you how many posts I see from beginners who are looking for DDs randomly. This advice is very important.
Yes, unknowns are discovered. But it is by people who know what to look for.
Yes you have a doubled die. One of the better ones in recent years.
I found another y’all. 2015 DDO. And this one is better than the first one I found.
Looks like DDO-001
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Seeing a possible spread on the letters and numbers... looking like a DD.
Thank you for sharing this example of what to look for in a DDO. Are machined DDO's worth less that the other types of ddo's?
Machine doubling not machine doubled die.
Machine doubling, also known as mechanical doubling and strike doubling adds no value to a coin. Error expert John Wexler calls it worthless doubling. The following link has a great explanation under the tab called "worthless. Doubling"
http://doubleddie.com/144801.html
Thank you for the link! As far as grading is concerned will pcgs still grade it as a DDO or FS 101, with this machining on the front of the coin?
Thank you
So now my question is will that 2015 DDO. In Variety vista list it’s DDO-001. In the Wexler list it’s DDO-006. So which one is it for real. With the Wexler 2015 penny DDO-001. I don’t see nothing Doubled about it!
Use what’s in the CPG, especially, if you plan on getting it certified. Our hosts uses the CPG for variety attributions.
Funny question here. But this is how we continue to learn. What is CPG??..lol..
I should have typed it out. CPG is the Cherrypickers’ Guide.
Here’s the link from PCGS that explains what references are used for variety attributions.
https://www.pcgs.com/varietyfaq
Thank you.
They're two separate catalogs. The CONECA (Variety Vista) listings typically take precedence over the Wexler listings, with the Wexler numbers (WDDO-006, in this case) only being used if the variety is not listed by CONECA. So in this case, most people would prefer it to be called DDO-001.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I should know by next week. I sent in the 3 errors i have and hopefully they will do well and complete my set.
Good luck and please post the results.