Revealing my growing list of unwritten rules

BrettPCGS

Heather is a stickler for simplicity. As such, we only have seven forum rules. Some other boards I've been on, in this hobby and elsewhere, have a list of rules, terms, and conditions so long that you'd need a team of lawyers to determine if you're allowed to even post.

I've been imploring Heather to let me add more rules, but she won't let me. This is her forum, I just work here. So below I'm working on my own list of unwritten rules:

8. Late night libel. The forum moderating team consists of four adult human beings, who all live on the west coast, and typically attempt to get some sleep each and every night. Intentionally saving trouble for late night isn't permissible. In my own mental ledger when you break our easy to follow rules after-hours it's two strikes, not one.


9. If you spend your time attempting to find "the line" on what's appropriate or inappropriate on this forum you'll simply be banned. "Challenges" to be banned will also result in an automatic ban.


10. No matter the number of posts or badges you have to your name, no one is grandfathered in to intentionally wasting our time.


That's it so far, I'll keep updating this as we go along or until Heather sees this and deletes it...

WWW

Late Night Libel. Perfect. Good post, Brett.

jmlanzaf

actually, the worst is "late night weekend libel"

Coinstartled

And Ebay slams should be prohibited. Large corporations have feelings too.

kbbpll

And what are your rules for deleting threads (containing many hours of research) that are somehow deemed embarrassing to your company? This is not a snide question. I would honestly like to know.

jmlanzaf

@Coinstartled said:
And Ebay slams should be prohibited. Large corporations have feelings too.

LOL. You would have been banned 108 times by now.

MFeld

Brett, “Late Night Libel” sounds like a great name for a new, smash-hit TV show! 😉

jmlanzaf

@kbbpll said:
And what are your rules for deleting threads (containing many hours of research) that are somehow deemed embarrassing to your company? This is not a snide question. I would honestly like to know.

Gee, that doesn't sound snide at all.

There is a policy against libelous statements against any company, not just PCGS.

There are threads closed but still here that call out alleged mistakes by PCGS. PCGS left the threads, closed them, and said they'd look into the coin. That includes the original Seated Dollar thread with the allegedly polished but straight graded coin. It is a fallacy that they close threads that are simply "embarrassing" to the company.

Personally, if I were PCGS, I might moderate much more harshly than they do. I think they tolerate a LOT.

This is a privately run forum. If you don't like the rules, there are other forums. Of course, this one is the best.

blitzdude

I love this place. Semper Fi!

BrettPCGS

11. If a user is banned for violating rules and/or being rude and another user attempts to turn it into a conspiracy about something completely unrelated, that user will also be banned.

CoinHoarder

PCGS Forums paid for by PCGS. PCGS rules. It is a privilege, and not a right to use these forums. Thank you PCGS! I for one appreciate what you have provided for us here to discuss our hobby.

CoinPhysicist

@jmlanzaf said:

@kbbpll said:
And what are your rules for deleting threads (containing many hours of research) that are somehow deemed embarrassing to your company? This is not a snide question. I would honestly like to know.

Gee, that doesn't sound snide at all.

There is a policy against libelous statements against any company, not just PCGS.

There are threads closed but still here that call out alleged mistakes by PCGS. PCGS left the threads, closed them, and said they'd look into the coin. That includes the original Seated Dollar thread with the allegedly polished but straight graded coin. It is a fallacy that they close threads that are simply "embarrassing" to the company.

Personally, if I were PCGS, I might moderate much more harshly than they do. I think they tolerate a LOT.

This is a privately run forum. If you don't like the rules, there are other forums. Of course, this one is the best.

Sometimes I think they should moderate more harshly. They tolerate way more than I would tolerate if this was my forum.

keets

how is it that a respondent to this thread only a little over two hours ago has been banned?? that has got to be a record of some kind. I think maybe rule 11, right??

Justacommeman

@keets said:
how is it that a respondent to this thread only a little over two hours ago has been banned?? that has got to be a record of some kind. I think maybe rule 11, right??

He threw himself on a live grenade. The outcome was predictable. While not quite death by moderator death by el presidente is a pretty good way to go out if that’s your goal

m

Coinstartled

@CoinPhysicist said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@kbbpll said:
And what are your rules for deleting threads (containing many hours of research) that are somehow deemed embarrassing to your company? This is not a snide question. I would honestly like to know.

Gee, that doesn't sound snide at all.

There is a policy against libelous statements against any company, not just PCGS.

There are threads closed but still here that call out alleged mistakes by PCGS. PCGS left the threads, closed them, and said they'd look into the coin. That includes the original Seated Dollar thread with the allegedly polished but straight graded coin. It is a fallacy that they close threads that are simply "embarrassing" to the company.

Personally, if I were PCGS, I might moderate much more harshly than they do. I think they tolerate a LOT.

This is a privately run forum. If you don't like the rules, there are other forums. Of course, this one is the best.

Sometimes I think they should moderate more harshly. They tolerate way more than I would tolerate if this was my forum.

Take all the fun away and the forum will be as dull as the 4 hour Houston, Yankees game.

emeraldATV

@kbbpll said:
And what are your rules for deleting threads (containing many hours of research) that are somehow deemed embarrassing to your company? This is not a snide question. I would honestly like to know.

WOW, Thats really too deep for my late night thinking. !

keets

I had a dream the other night: page after page at the forum was dominated by an inside-trader explaining to a classroom filled with sheep about the nuances of coin grading, thread after thread after thread. I woke up in a cold sweat, someone shaking me and calling my name. when I opened my eyes it was a giant coin, the whole thing really startled me!! I fell back into a deep sleep and upon waking I discovered that my post count was 10 and I had no badges, I didn't have no stinkin' badges, someone had taken my stinkin' badges!!

Coinstartled

Best to skip the pickled herring too close to bedtime.

oldgoldlover

@BrettPCGS said:
Heather is a stickler for simplicity. As such, we only have seven forum rules. Some other boards I've been on, in this hobby and elsewhere, have a list of rules, terms, and conditions so long that you'd need a team of lawyers to determine if you're allowed to even post.

I've been imploring Heather to let me add more rules, but she won't let me. This is her forum, I just work here. So below I'm working on my own list of unwritten rules:

8. Late night libel. The forum moderating team consists of four adult human beings, who all live on the west coast, and typically attempt to get some sleep each and every night. Intentionally saving trouble for late night isn't permissible. In my own mental ledger when you break our easy to follow rules after-hours it's two strikes, not one.


9. If you spend your time attempting to find "the line" on what's appropriate or inappropriate on this forum you'll simply be banned. "Challenges" to be banned will also result in an automatic ban.


10. No matter the number of posts or badges you have to your name, no one is grandfathered in to intentionally wasting our time.


That's it so far, I'll keep updating this as we go along or until Heather sees this and deletes it...

Remind her this is the U.S. and freedom of speech is a basic right here.

1Mike1

@keets said:
I had a dream the other night: page after page at the forum was dominated by an inside-trader explaining to a classroom filled with sheep about the nuances of coin grading, thread after thread after thread. I woke up in a cold sweat, someone shaking me and calling my name. when I opened my eyes it was a giant coin, the whole thing really startled me!! I fell back into a deep sleep and upon waking I discovered that my post count was 10 and I had no badges, I didn't have no stinkin' badges, someone had taken my stinkin' badges!!

Funny you mention that. I had a dream I was having lunch with a friend and I asked him, what criteria do you use to purchase coins and he said "I have a few unwritten rules" and he proceeded to write them down on a napkin. It was then that my mind wandered into the thought of, if he's writing these down, how can they be unwritten. Then the waitress came (I think her name tag said Heather) and quickly cleared our table and i realized she had trashed the list that was on the napkin. I never got to see the list and woke up just as I was about to knock my bourbon back. It was a horrible experience.

jmlanzaf

@oldgoldlover said:

@BrettPCGS said:
Heather is a stickler for simplicity. As such, we only have seven forum rules. Some other boards I've been on, in this hobby and elsewhere, have a list of rules, terms, and conditions so long that you'd need a team of lawyers to determine if you're allowed to even post.

I've been imploring Heather to let me add more rules, but she won't let me. This is her forum, I just work here. So below I'm working on my own list of unwritten rules:

Remind her this is the U.S. and freedom of speech is a basic right here.

"Freedom of Speech" is the most misunderstood freedom there is. Freedom of speech means the GOVERNMENT cannot sanction you for statements made. [Clear and present danger excepted.] There is NO SUCH THING as freedom of speech in a private space such as this forum. If PCGS chooses to ban anyone who uses the word "the", they have that right and it does not violate "freedom of speech".

jmlanzaf

@Coinstartled said:

@CoinPhysicist said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@kbbpll said:
And what are your rules for deleting threads (containing many hours of research) that are somehow deemed embarrassing to your company? This is not a snide question. I would honestly like to know.

Gee, that doesn't sound snide at all.

There is a policy against libelous statements against any company, not just PCGS.

There are threads closed but still here that call out alleged mistakes by PCGS. PCGS left the threads, closed them, and said they'd look into the coin. That includes the original Seated Dollar thread with the allegedly polished but straight graded coin. It is a fallacy that they close threads that are simply "embarrassing" to the company.

Personally, if I were PCGS, I might moderate much more harshly than they do. I think they tolerate a LOT.

This is a privately run forum. If you don't like the rules, there are other forums. Of course, this one is the best.

Sometimes I think they should moderate more harshly. They tolerate way more than I would tolerate if this was my forum.

Take all the fun away and the forum will be as dull as the 4 hour Houston, Yankees game.

That is true. But this is a BUSINESS. It would be silly to allow behavior that potentially harms the business.

Coinstartled

.12.

No caps after midnight.

lcoopie

Perhaps stick this to the top if allowed

jmlanzaf

@Coinstartled said:
.12.

No caps after midnight.

Your 1st letter is a violation

JBK

@jmlanzaf said:
actually, the worst is "late night weekend libel"

...on a long holiday weekend.

Downtown1974

@jmlanzaf said:

@oldgoldlover said:

Remind her this is the U.S. and freedom of speech is a basic right here.

"Freedom of Speech" is the most misunderstood freedom there is. Freedom of speech means the GOVERNMENT cannot sanction you for statements made. [Clear and present danger excepted.] There is NO SUCH THING as freedom of speech in a private space such as this forum. If PCGS chooses to ban anyone who uses the word "the", they have that right and it does not violate "freedom of speech".

Well said @jmlanzaf Some confuse the rules and regulations set forth by private entities (such as these forums) with their constitutional rights.

topstuf

Buy the coin; not the libel.

Hemispherical

It all comes down to not feeding the coin tribbles.

Oldhoopster

It's PCGS's sandbox, so if you want to play here, you have to follow their rules. It's nice that Brett is publishing some of the unwritten things that will help those who like to push the envelope

IMO, if you don't like the rules, find somewhere else to play. If the rules become too restricting (or the platform becomes too cumbersome to use) people will go elsewhere. As long as PCGS feels they are getting value from hosting this forum(PR, brand awareness, etc) they are going to keep the rules this way. There are things on here I don't like, but as long as the scholarship (which is dropping IMO) and information posted here continue to have value to me, I'll keep reading the posts

BustDMs

Gee Brett. You posted after I was in bed

TwoSides2aCoin

Kindergarten roundup.

Justacommeman

@Oldhoopster said:
It's PCGS's sandbox, so if you want to play here, you have to follow their rules. It's nice that Brett is publishing some of the unwritten things that will help those who like to push the envelope

IMO, if you don't like the rules, find somewhere else to play. If the rules become too restricting (or the platform becomes too cumbersome to use) people will go elsewhere. As long as PCGS feels they are getting value from hosting this forum(PR, brand awareness, etc) they are going to keep the rules this way. There are things on here I don't like, but as long as the scholarship (which is dropping IMO) and information posted here continue to have value to me, I'll keep reading the posts

All this is true. It would also partially explain why participation amongst veteran posters who used to contribute a lot is down exponentially.

It is what it is. At the end of the day not that important in the grand scheme of things

m

ZROGST

Brett and the "unwritten rules" are ruining open and honest discussion. I guess I'll be banned for having that opinion.

Justacommeman

Fire in the hole

m

Catbert

Seems to me that, as pcgs president, that there would be bigger fish to fry than the antics on this message board. Hopefully expressing such an opinion doesn’t get me banned.

LanLord

Can these still be considered "unwritten", now that they are in black and white electrons?

BTW, I do like the term "late night libel". All rules should have such character.

Oldhoopster

It isn't about open and honest duscussion, it's about the value that PCGS is getting from providing the resources to host this forum. This IS NOT a slam on PCGS, it's reality and is the same for any other numismatic forum. It has nothing to do with free speech or an altruistic idea to seek the truth.

There is nothing wrong with that. There is a lot of great info posted on this site. 20+ years ago, it was very difficult to get opinions and information world class experts. I remember meeting Art Kagin at a coin show when I was in high school. Wow, I got to talk to a major dealer that sold major rarities (Btw, he was really nice to me). Now, look at all of the top level experts who respond to posts in this forum.

As long as I can learn something and get value from this forum, I'll put up with the rules.

@ZROGST said:
Brett and the "unwritten rules" are ruining open and honest discussion. I guess I'll be banned for having that opinion.

Insider2

@BrettPCGS said:
Heather is a stickler for simplicity. As such, we only have seven forum rules. Some other boards I've been on, in this hobby and elsewhere, have a list of rules, terms, and conditions so long that you'd need a team of lawyers to determine if you're allowed to even post.

I've been imploring Heather to let me add more rules, but she won't let me. This is her forum, I just work here. So below I'm working on my own list of unwritten rules:

8. Late night libel. The forum moderating team consists of four adult human beings, who all live on the west coast, and typically attempt to get some sleep each and every night. Intentionally saving trouble for late night isn't permissible. In my own mental ledger when you break our easy to follow rules after-hours it's two strikes, not one.


9. If you spend your time attempting to find "the line" on what's appropriate or inappropriate on this forum you'll simply be banned. "Challenges" to be banned will also result in an automatic ban.


10. No matter the number of posts or badges you have to your name, no one is grandfathered in to intentionally wasting our time.


That's it so far, I'll keep updating this as we go along or until Heather sees this and deletes it...

Obviously, CU Forum is a PCGS operation. I believe it is provided as a service to our hobby. There are simple, and easy to understand rules. We all post here at PGCS's pleasure.

It was my understanding that you now run PGCS. Therefore, you must have the major control of how the company operates. It seems to me that you are overriding your employee which is your prerogative:

"I've been imploring Heather to let me add more rules, but she won't let me. This is her forum, I just work here. So below I'm working on my own list of unwritten rules:..."

From what I have read, the old PCGS administration had a lot of unwritten rules. Now, I think all but a few members will agree that you and your staff have made the forums here better. I'm writing this in the hope that you all can come to some compromise so there are never unwritten rules."

Finally, I think many of us come close to "poking-the-bear" but a person would be crazy to do it on purpose.
I'm glad you found this post funny: "How is it that a respondent to this thread only a little over two hours ago has been banned?? that has got to be a record of some kind. I think maybe rule 11, right??

jmlanzaf

@ZROGST said:
Brett and the "unwritten rules" are ruining open and honest discussion. I guess I'll be banned for having that opinion.

Honestly, I have yet to see them shut down open and honest NUMISMATIC discussions. The threads that get shut down are either making accusations against numismatic firms or individuals, degenerating into personal bickering, or becoming political. That leaves a lot of room to discuss the coin market, coin grading, numismatic history, etc.

ms70

Instead of just accepting Brett's post and not commenting, people are going to run this thread right into the ground too.

jmlanzaf

@WalterWhite0316 said:
I dont understand. There are rules that get us in trouble then there are "rules" that can get us in trouble that we dont evne know about?

They reserve the right to shut down detrimental discussions. It's not that hard to understand. It would be hard to have 100 written rules detailing all possible detrimental discussions.

jmlanzaf

@ms70 said:
Instead of just accepting Brett's post and not commenting, people are going to run this thread right into the ground too.

I assume you are NOT surprised by that. LOL.

Insider2

@ZROGST said:
Brett and the "unwritten rules" are ruining open and honest discussion. I guess I'll be banned for having that opinion.

THIS is exactly the kind of post he just wrote about. IMO, if you are still around you deserve a PM. I'll assure you that you will be very uncomfortable before you open it.

Baley

@WalterWhite0316 said:
I dont understand. There are rules that get us in trouble then there are "rules" that can get us in trouble that we dont evne know about?

The written and unwritten rules are for those who lack common sense and self awareness. Most do not need to be told the rules explicitly, and are embarrassed for those who do.

Insider2

@WalterWhite0316 said:
I dont understand. There are rules that get us in trouble then there are "rules" that can get us in trouble that we dont evne know about?

Actually, it is very simple and it seems you do understand. That's why I suggested they amend the rules.

Justacommeman

@ms70 said:
Instead of just accepting Brett's post and not commenting, people are going to run this thread right into the ground too.

Somewhere in So Cal Brett is just waking up and probably minding his own business. He will proceed to fire up the Keurig and pop some gluten free bread in the toaster. He might jump on the internet and see what crazy stuff is happening in the US of A.

And then........ he may check out this thread. His first thought will be, “ Man I thought I flushed the forum toilet before I turned in last night . Dayum.”

m

derryb

@oldgoldlover said:

Remind her this is the U.S. and freedom of speech is a basic right here.

Old saying in the newspaper business: "freedom of the press belongs to those that own one."

Zoins

@Justacommeman said:

@Oldhoopster said:
It's PCGS's sandbox, so if you want to play here, you have to follow their rules. It's nice that Brett is publishing some of the unwritten things that will help those who like to push the envelope

IMO, if you don't like the rules, find somewhere else to play. If the rules become too restricting (or the platform becomes too cumbersome to use) people will go elsewhere. As long as PCGS feels they are getting value from hosting this forum(PR, brand awareness, etc) they are going to keep the rules this way. There are things on here I don't like, but as long as the scholarship (which is dropping IMO) and information posted here continue to have value to me, I'll keep reading the posts

All this is true. It would also partially explain why participation amongst veteran posters who used to contribute a lot is down exponentially.

It is what it is. At the end of the day not that important in the grand scheme of things

m

I don’t see anything in the rules targeting veteran posters.