Hidden collections

hench1 · June 24, 2002 5:25AM

Am I the only one on the registry that has a problem with people registering their sets, keeping them hidden from view, yet still receiving a ranking? PSA told me I made the first complaint about that issue.

My point is this: I am willing to post my set ( I have the top 2 T205 sets registered) and let people see what I have ( I think THAT is the fun of the registry) even though I risk some folks jacking up prices on cards I need. I don't think that someone who isn't willing to reveal their cards should get a ranking. If they want to wait until their set is complete to reveal it, then they can wait until then to get a ranking.

What does everyone else think?

Vargha · June 24, 2002 5:30AM

I have no problem with that. If PSA has confirmed the cert. #'s, then the set's position is valid even if I can't see the composition. My set was one of those sets for quite a while (although it is currently viewable with about 200 scans of the cards).

aconte · June 24, 2002 5:38AM

I agree with you hench1. I think gemmintman should be forced to show us that Giants set!

aconte

JH · June 24, 2002 5:42AM

I don't see a problem with it... if I felt that people were using the information against me, I would pull the detail information.... I would rather see the summary info than have no info at all....

thegemmintman · June 24, 2002 5:42AM

Aconte - no one may see my '64 Topps Giants set. No one.

I'll destroy it before I'm forced to show it to anyone

.

aconte · June 24, 2002 5:46AM

Gemmint,

Seriously though...

I don't blame you or others for not showing your sets. I know it would stink if everyone thought
like me on this. But I fully understand why some people do not show their sets.

aconte

FB · June 24, 2002 6:29AM

I currently have all of my sets viewable except for the 72 set which will be opened up for viewing within the next week or so. I have no problem with people who show or don't show their cards.

And if PSA can verify it - I think that they should get the rank.

Just my 2 cents...

LuxuryWines · June 24, 2002 7:00AM

I have no problem with people not showing their sets.... I would hope people would want to show off their accomplishments otherwise why register it?

Jeff

dom · June 24, 2002 7:28AM

I also have no problem hiding a set. I have three sets listed and two of them have the cards and grades listed. My 1955 Topps Baseball is not open because there are a number of cards that need to be upgraded. As Jim correctly stated, I don't want that information used against me. My tag line is a perfect example. I need Joe Collins to complete the set. For the first time since the year of the flood one has been listed in PSA 8. The opening bid is $1500! I have already emailed the seller informing him that I would not be bidding. I don't need to give away info on the other numbers I want so that sellers can inflate their opening bids. When I am satisfied with the set composition, it will be open for all to see.

theBobs · June 24, 2002 7:28AM

<< <i>Aconte - no one may see my '64 Topps Giants set. No one. >>

"None shall pass!"

And on a side note, I think the only qualification in order to register a set should be a payment of One Million Dollars made payable to me in cash.

One
Million
Dollars...

Mantlefan · June 24, 2002 9:59AM

Certainly not listing a set's composition hurts the registry, but I can understand that certain people could use that information to jack up auction prices. Population numbers are becoming more important than the SMR for some sets...with sellers listing "low pop numbers" as a way to get higher prices. It's getting tougher out there folks: as more information becomes available it's getting harder and harder to complete vintage sets.

HECK55 · June 24, 2002 2:02PM

I don't suppose not being able to see a persons set is a big deal but it seems to me that it hurts the idea of the registry. It makes me feel like I have wasted my time pulling up the registry - I like to look but have no intention of using any info against someone if I could. jpezl and I just completed a good trade that helped us both using info from the registry. If I thought someone was trying to jack me up by listing cards at high reserve or opening bid just because they knew I needed it I would start holding back - show some low grade cards for a while in my set that I may have high grade backups and let them waste their time and money trying to jack me on cards I don't really need. Might work - Might not! I would feel better anyway. Anyway, I still like to drool over what the guys above me have in their sets -some of the guys behind me have cards I need and I drool over them!! Excuse me - I have to go wash my chin. Rick

mikeschmidt · June 24, 2002 10:51PM

I do not believe that there is, nor should there be any obligation to allow a set's composition to be viewed by others -- for the same reasons as stated above. Too many opportunistic dealers, etc. trying to take advantage of a situation that could potentially net them hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars.

I would rather see a set registered, and not seen, than have a set not registered at all. To this day, of the five 1955 Bowman baseball sets I am aware of in serious terms of completion, only one is registered. I would rather see the percentages for the others than nothig at all...

Alfiewt · June 25, 2002 12:23PM

hench1,

I see you closed you sets to viewing now. Why did you decide to do this? I hope you will reopen them soon, I do enjoy looking at them.

hench1 · June 27, 2002 6:10AM

Al,
I closed my sets to protest PSA allowing the ranking of closed sets. I think it is wrong to rank sets that no one can view because it takes the fun out of the registry. Don Luchio's T205 set is closed yet ranked. I'd love to see what he has out of curiosity. I will be happy to reopen the set if PSA will change their policy, but they told me I was the only one who had complained.

paigowmichael · June 27, 2002 11:10PM

While I agree that hidden sets do detract from some of the fun of looking through the registry, this doesn't seem to be a widespread problem.

I can understand the reasons someone might want to hide his/her set. There might be an occasional situation where someone tries to gouge someone they know is close to finishing a set. Or bidding on a hard-to-get card might get more competitive on a hard-to-find card. But in the end, the collector always has the option of maintaining some sanity and refuse to overpay. Hiding may be a little paranoid, but at least there's a rationale behind it.

99% of most registry users put their sets out there so they can show them off. But on occasion, they might want to "hide" them for whatever reason.

The only reason I can think of for getting upset over people having their set composition hidden would be the case where a highly-competitive person is bothered that they can't keep an eye on the competition's progress.

I see the Registry rankings as a "friendly" competition....one in which winning is nice but not a driving motivation for building one's set(s). When I can't look at a set I'd like to glance at I may be disappointed. But I don't go and hide my set in retaliation.

I'm not accusing anyone of being excessively competitive...I just don't see this as something worth getting worked up about.

Just my two cents.

hench1 · June 28, 2002 12:45AM

Michael, I'll respond to your post since it appears to be directed toward me (or am I just being paranoid???). I, too, think that the Registry should be "friendly" competition. And I am more than happy to compete on a level playing field. But recently a dealer told me that he was asked by a consignor NOT to sell his cards to me, because the seller didn't want me to fill some holes in my set that would have brought me closer to the quality of the seller's soon-to-be registered set. Also, I agree with your method of dealing with price gouging (Just say NO).

My T205 set is far beyond Don Luchio's at this point. If I only listed my premier cards, my numbers would look like his, but my set is essentially complete (I need one card) and he has a 1,000 mile march to catch me due to the depth of my collection. So I'm not concerned with him "catching me", but rather it's a "you show me yours and I'll show you mine" kinda deal. It just needs to be a two-way street for everybody. When it is, I'll be happy to reopen my set for all to enjoy, like I had been doing.

mikeschmidt · June 28, 2002 1:06AM

hench1-

As far as Don L. is concerned -- if he wanted a better T205 set than you, he could probably eventually do it. The public knowledge of the value of his sportscards in his collection exceeds two million dollars. However, his collection is many, many times more deep than that which he has let on to the public. One thing is clear from his T205 set: There are four T205 cards that have ever been graded PSA 9 MINT, and they all happen to be Hall of Famers. He clearly has two of those cards (at least). It is also fairly clear that nearly all of the 24 cards he has registered are Hall of Famers or other significant cards from the set.

I personally would not keep my set open for a few reasons:

1) I have seen dealers try to exploit their knowledge of this with starting bids of 10x true value in an effort to profit off of the Registry.

2) I know that at least one other collector of the same set as I that would base their bids on the knowledge of whether or not I need a card. The way it works now, I snipe with 3 seconds -- so they don't know if a) I don't need a card, b) I need a card but will only pay book value or c) I need a card and will pay 10x book value

3) Some people in certain set "competitions" enter into bidding arrangements with other bidders. If any of them feel that they may have ever been slighted or burned, it may cost a lot of interpersonal grief. I know of at least one PSA 9 card I have, that is 1/1, that might cause some grief to others if they knew I owned it. I don't want to open up my set for others to see and potentiall ruin a nice friendship.

4) If any fellow collector had a strong curiousity for what I had, in what grade, and if I had scans, I would be happy to acommodate. People know the sets and players I collect. If you want to see if I have a card, and what grade it is in, just ask me! I will be very happy to accomodate.

5) Not to be isolationist here -- but there is only one major 1955 Bowman set collector who has registered his/her set at this point. I would feel more comfortable if i was not the first in the game to do so. As others change their ways, I will eventually be persuaded.

You make some very good points, I I think they are worthy of additional discussion. However, I have made my decision on this matter, and will stick with it for the time being. Many collectors I know feel that it is overall disadvantageous to have a set less than 100% complete listed on the Registry. Even then it becomes potentially problematic if you want to "constantly upgrade". The Registry is a fun and exciting place -- but right now it is just in its infant stages. Just imagine of how many other T205 sets there are out there -- there are definitely some VG and better sets out there that aren't even graded yet! And there are also a few graded set collectors out there who are probably done, close to done, who have amazing sets.

hench1 · June 28, 2002 3:42AM

Mike,
You make many good points as well. I really would LOVE to see other T205 sets listed. I've collected the set for over 10 years and am curious to see what others have assembled. If Don L. has more to his set, I would love to see that as well.
That is my whole point-the very essence of the fun of the registry is seeing what fellow collectors have put together, dreaming of possibilities and swapping stories and information. To have a cold, sterile number posted without the underlying composition of the unique set itself is rather meaningless to me.
Maybe the issue of dealers using the info against us is larger than I perceived (and maybe I did myself a favor by hiding my sets).
Anyway, it will be interesting to see how the registry evolves. I love the idea.

Alfiewt · June 28, 2002 4:24AM

I think if PSA forced everyone to show there set composition, I think a lot of people would take their sets off the registry. I'd love to be able to see all the sets, but I'd rather have the sets listed without them showing their composition then them not being listed at all.

As for showing your composition, I think you are much more likely to find people that help you with you set then try to hurt you. I think anyone who uses the registry to try and hold someone hostage for a card they need is only hurting themselves in the long run. People will refuse to trade and buy from them, and it will hurt their set building, or business.

Hidden collections

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