Grade my card -- 1958 Topps Johnny Unitas
Rosatos_Hotel
Posts: 15 ✭
Just got it back from PSA and I'm disappointed with the grade. Tell me what you think?
Using a loupe and a mm ruler, I put the centering at 60/40 Top to Bottom, and 67/33 Side to Side, FYI.
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Looks like a surface wrinkle above the H in John. If that is a wrinkle I say a 5. If not a wrinkle I say an 8oc or a straight 6.
6 sounds about right. Being off centered both ways really hurts eye appeal.
Wrinkle could reduce grade even below a 5.
My guess is PSA 4
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, Dwight Evans, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
I see it was a straight 6 by the cert number. I think that is a pretty fair grade given the centering.
PSA 5
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stupid print dots
PSA 6 MC
No wrinkle about the H-- it's a funny light reflection off the case.
I'm new to this (can you tell)? Which is more appealing to potential buyers... 8(OC) or straight 6? Or are they the same?
Depends on the buyer. Some people don't mind the oc designation while some won't touch them. Others would prefer the the straight 6. I would assume that those are people that are buying the holder and not the card since it is virtually the same thing.
Looks like a solid 6. The centering is preventing it from being a 7 or 8.
Using a loupe and a mm ruler, I put the centering at 60/40 Top to Bottom, and 67/33 Side to Side, FYI.
FYI you are not computing the centering correctly. The centering is considerably more off than your numbers. The centering is measured at the point where the card is off center the most. Top to bottom that would be measured at the right side of the card, and left to right that would be measured at the top of the card. If you click on your picture to view the very large picture you can more easily and accurately measure the correct centering of your card, unless you're rounding up to the 1/2". Visually just based on the off centering and tilt two ways a 6 was a rather generous technical overall grade on the card.
I think more people prefer the straight grade. The people looking for 8s usually will not buy something with an OC. The people that collect 6s will look at the card and then assess if the cards trade-offs (centering vs sharp corners) are something they want in their collection.
Thanks for the feedback, @KbKards. FWIW, I used this as my tutorial, along with the spreadsheet that calculates the ratios. I found it very informative! https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/897961/a-guide-to-centering
Thanks for the responses, everyone. Looks like PSA got it right. They gave it a straight 6 -- I was hoping for a 7.
Take a look at this Bart Starr, which was submitted in the same batch as the Unitas. It came back an 8 (OC) and it looks the same as the Unitas. Thoughts? Is there a difference? Again, I'm new and learning.
And this Brown rookie. It too came back from PSA a 6. It was also submitted with the Starr and the Unitas in the same batch. Very similar centering issues as well, but only the Starr got 8(OC).
My guess earlier of a PSA 4 was only because I was reading too much into your post and expecting it to be lower than I otherwise would have thought. Looking at the card, I think a 6 is fair. I probably would have guessed a 5, but a 6 is a fair grade I think.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, Dwight Evans, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
I liked it as a 7
saucywombat@hotmail.com
That looks more like 75/25 centering. Corners and edges looks like an 8. Hard to tell on surface. 8oc or 6 my guess
Too funny. Didn't see that the cert number was shown. I guessed correctly. Now I wonder why some received the OC designation while others didn't? Did the OP state no qualifiers?
Nope. I did not ask for No Qualifiers or minimum grades!
Interesting they went higher and qualifier on 1 of the 3 and lower with no qualifier on the other 2.
Rosatos_Hotel: "Got it back from PSA and I'm disappointed with the grade." Welcome to Vintage grading and prepare for disappointment. Considering the centering and eye appeal those are actually pretty strong grades. IMO higher value/ demand cards will always get more scrutiny during the grading process. Personally, I don't care for the no qualifier option as this was one aspect that separated PSA from the other TPG. Welcome and enjoy the ride...……….
PSA also looks at other aspects of the card for grading. The Brown has heavy surface wear common for the card and the Unitas appears to have some corner issues which would limit the max grade.
I have noticed a trend of receiving the lower grade without the oc qualifier in the last year or so. Even on cases that the centering is drastically off centered. I have maybe asked for no qualifiers on 1 or 2 cards out of probably close to 500 submitted during that time fram
I believe that the John Unitas card should have received an OC qualifier. It looks like a PSA NM-MT 8 (OC) to me.
Here's the backstory on these cards ... when I was about 11 or 12 (1983-ish) I found in my grandmother's basement a box of '58 football cards containing about 20 unopened cello packs, and one unopened pack of '58 Topps baseball cards. They were still in the store box. (My grandparents owned a hardware store in Pittsburgh in the 50's and 60's -- when they closed the store, most of the unsold inventory was packed up and moved into their basement. These cards came from that inventory.) Being 11 or 12 and ignorant about such things, I opened all the packs. The roughly 200 cards yielded a nearly completed set, and included the Brown, Starr, and Unitas pictured above. (Which may explain why they are all roughly the same off center–they could have come from the same print/cut run at the factory?) Immediately after opening, I put all the cards into plastic sleeves, where they've been ever since. Only time the cards have been handled outside of the sleeves was upon opening the packs and then again at PSA a few weeks ago. (@KbKards -- the Brown card's appearance is due to poor lighting or bad photo on my part -- it doesn't have any surface wear at all. It's only ever been touched twice.)
My dad used the doubles from that box to to build out a complete set of these '58s, and to start building his set of '55 Topps baseball. These footballers went into storage for 35 years and I forgot about them -- marriage, kids, jobs, life happened. I never got into the hobby. Dad sent the cards back to me a year ago. I'm only now getting around to figuring out what to do with them ... some dealers at a card show a few months back told me to get the best ones graded. So here we are.
Cool story.
Believe it or not, the cards were NOT the reason I spent hours hunting through that musty basement. The rumor among my cousins was that there was a first issue/first edition PLAYBOY somewhere down there. As a young lad, THAT's what I was looking for when I stumbled across the cards.
That is a great story, Rosatos_Hotel. Considering the history of the cards, PSA seems to have been relatively consistent with the grading.
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I would give it 7oc
The best thing about centering measurement ratios is there’s no opinion involved. All you need are accurate measurements, a calculator, and the resulting centering ratio is a fact not opinion. The problem apparent in this thread is not only some people’s inability to measure centering accurately, but also and most importantly understanding what those numbers are supposed to mean visually when looking at a card. You don’t look at a card like Unitas and put 60/40 unless you don’t understand what 60/40 means.
A 50/50 card obviously means equally balanced borders.
A 60/40 card means if you 1.5 times the width of the thin border it will equal the width of the fat border.
A 67.5/32.5 card means that if you double the thin border it will equal the fat border.
A 75/25 card means if you triple the thin border it will equal the fat border.
Looking at the card and knowing what 60/40 and 67/33 ratios are supposed to look like means those ratio numbers are wrong. At the worst point of centering top to bottom one border is over twice the thickness of the other and left to right one border is over triple the thickness of the other. The picture is clickable and enlargeable to a very sharp detail so there is no excuse to obtaining measurements that will match the actual centering you see when looking at the card.
Unitas and Starr cards look close. Which would you rather have? Straight 6 or 8 O/C
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I would prefer an 8OC but I believe that I'm in the minority.
To me, those are beautiful cards with solid eye appeal.
I'd prefer whichever grade will get me the most $$!! I'm planning on selling the set.
Good luck
I don’t think one grade (8(oc) vs straight 6) will get you enough more than the other to pay grading fees again. Good luck with selling your set.
Now on Ebay for auction are the Brown rookie, Unitas, Starr and others from this post. Auctions end Sunday night.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/kgfischer/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=&rt=nc&LH_Auction=1
There's a '58 Topps Mantle All-Star PSA 6 in there too!