@tincup said:
RedstoneCoins... your writing style reminds me of another poster on this forum. Are you an Alt ID trying to have fun on the weekend? Just sayin...
@ifthevamzarockin said:
Heavy polishing like seen on your coin will move metal & remove metal and details.
The obverse cracks would not have transferred well on such a small coin and if they did manage to slightly transfer they would be gone from the harsh polishing.
Will it create casting bubbles, or depressions without microscopic scrape lines?
No it won't.
Do you want me to make a microscope video of the coin? Because it sounds like you do.
I'll remind all of you of something I learned very quickly. It is one of the Hard & Fast rules of coin authentication -
probably #2 in importance.
Every characteristic you can find on a genuine coin can eventually be found on a counterfeit. The reverse is also true. Every characteristic found on a counterfeit coin can eventually be found on a genuine specimen.
That should "shut-down" most of the arguments posted by the authentication experts in this thread who believe the piece is a counterfeit.
@Baley said:
Not sure why it matters in this case. Coin worth only gold content melt value either way.
It's the PRINCIPLE
Absolutely. And the hardest coins to authenticate are "problem" coins such as this.
Sooner or later ALL Professional authenticators' will call a counterfeit coin GENUINE. Big deal but no big deal. IMO, the worse thing a professional authenticator can do is to call a genuine coin COUNTERFEIT!
PS If this were a $2 1/2 C.A.L. your opinion might be different.
@Insider2 said:
I'll remind all of you of something I learned very quickly. It is one of the Hard & Fast rules of coin authentication -
probably #2 in importance.
Every characteristic you can find on a genuine coin can eventually be found on a counterfeit. The reverse is also true. Every characteristic found on a counterfeit coin can eventually be found on a genuine specimen.
That should "shut-down" most of the arguments posted by the authentication experts in this thread who believe the piece is a counterfeit.
Would that not, by your own logic, apply conversely to authentic coins? It would.
If every characteristic on a counterfeit coin could be found on an authentic coin, does that not also mean that authenticity is indeterminable?
Bingo.
Assuming that every characteristic on this coin could possibly be found on an authentic coin (which it cannot), that does not prove it is authentic. Merely that it is of indeterminable status.
I would rather err on the side of caution, as a collector and investor. If you can't prove a coin is real definitively and conclusively, then it should not be graded/certified as authentic. If there is any doubt (which there is a TON with this coin), then I wouldn't certify it as real.
Would you buy a graded coin if you found out that the grader(s) thought there was a high chance it was fake? I sure as hell wouldn't. What if inspection/authentication technology improves in the future and it is later proven definitively to be fake? You'd lose all your money, other than in its' bullion value, which for many coins, is substantially less than the price paid (especially for Charlotte, Carson City, all rare dates, etc). Hence why a savvy investor and collector simply avoids 'questionable authenticity' coins like this.
@Insider2 said:
I'll remind all of you of something I learned very quickly. It is one of the Hard & Fast rules of coin authentication -
probably #2 in importance.
Every characteristic you can find on a genuine coin can eventually be found on a counterfeit. The reverse is also true. Every characteristic found on a counterfeit coin can eventually be found on a genuine specimen.
That should "shut-down" most of the arguments posted by the authentication experts in this thread who believe the piece is a counterfeit.
"Would that not, by your own logic, apply conversely to authentic coins? It would. If every characteristic on a counterfeit coin could be found on an authentic coin, does that not also mean that authenticity is indeterminable? Bingo."
"Bingo?" Actually no, it's more like "BONGO!" You must have missed this part of my post: The reverse is also true. Every characteristic found on' a counterfeit coin can eventually be found on a genuine specimen."
Redstone continued: "Assuming that every characteristic on this coin could possibly be found on an authentic coin (which it cannot), that does not prove it is authentic. Merely that it is of indeterminable status."
WARNING: IMO, this comment is one reason why you should choose your coin dealer VERY CAREFULLY as they all are assumed to know something about coin authentication. Sometime in the future, when you have examined enough coins at magnifications greater than 10X so that your opinions on authentication matter, you'll be able to prove to yourself what several here have posted is accurate. Wink, Wink.
I would rather err on the side of caution, as a collector and investor. If you can't prove a coin is real definitively and conclusively, then it should not be graded/certified as authentic. [**AFAIK, that is what the TPGS's do as they guarantee their opinion]. If there is any doubt (which there is a TON with this coin), then I wouldn't certify it as real.
Decades ago, before ANACS was founded, many dealers lost their shirts buying fakes. Thankfully, now there are four major TPGS that keep many of them in business. You can send that "dog" to one of them (I suggest our host) and that should dispell your doubt about its authenticity. Unfortunately, I think you may be well past believing any result that does not match your opinion.
Redstone asked: "Would you buy a graded coin if you found out that the grader(s) thought there was a high chance it was fake? I sure as hell wouldn't. What if inspection/authentication technology improves in the future and it is later proven definitively to be fake? You'd lose all your money, other than in its' bullion value, which for many coins, is substantially less than the price paid (especially for Charlotte, Carson City, all rare dates, etc). Hence why a savvy investor and collector simply avoids 'questionable authenticity' coins like this."
I'll remind folks still reading this thread that "WHAT IF'S ARE FOR AUTHENTICATION EX-PERTS AND CHILDREN." They don't deserve comment except for this: Redstone, I truly hope you send your coin to PCGS and it comes back as a counterfeit! That's because every so often, a kick in the pants keeps a person HUMBLE! Best of luck.
Comments
RedstoneCoins... your writing style reminds me of another poster on this forum. Are you an Alt ID trying to have fun on the weekend? Just sayin...
????????????
....... 
Dude, I trusted you.
I may not know what I'm doing most of the time, but I'm Damn good at it. 😇 😈
I have never posted on this website before.
Will it create casting bubbles, or depressions without microscopic scrape lines?
No it won't.
Do you want me to make a microscope video of the coin? Because it sounds like you do.
"Do you want me to make a microscope video of the coin?"
You can do whatever you want it still won't change the fact you have a genuine polished coin.
You can put lipstick on a pig and call it whatever you want.....it's still a pig.
https://redstonecoins.com/
??
>
Gee, you got us 🙄
Impression made, check.
I'll remind all of you of something I learned very quickly. It is one of the Hard & Fast rules of coin authentication -
probably #2 in importance.
That should "shut-down" most of the arguments posted by the authentication experts in this thread who believe the piece is a counterfeit.
Not sure why it matters in this case. Coin worth only gold content melt value either way.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
It's the PRINCIPLE
Absolutely. And the hardest coins to authenticate are "problem" coins such as this.
Sooner or later ALL Professional authenticators' will call a counterfeit coin GENUINE. Big deal but no big deal. IMO, the worse thing a professional authenticator can do is to call a genuine coin COUNTERFEIT!
PS If this were a $2 1/2 C.A.L. your opinion
might be different.
Would that not, by your own logic, apply conversely to authentic coins? It would.
If every characteristic on a counterfeit coin could be found on an authentic coin, does that not also mean that authenticity is indeterminable?
Bingo.
Assuming that every characteristic on this coin could possibly be found on an authentic coin (which it cannot), that does not prove it is authentic. Merely that it is of indeterminable status.
I would rather err on the side of caution, as a collector and investor. If you can't prove a coin is real definitively and conclusively, then it should not be graded/certified as authentic. If there is any doubt (which there is a TON with this coin), then I wouldn't certify it as real.
Would you buy a graded coin if you found out that the grader(s) thought there was a high chance it was fake? I sure as hell wouldn't. What if inspection/authentication technology improves in the future and it is later proven definitively to be fake? You'd lose all your money, other than in its' bullion value, which for many coins, is substantially less than the price paid (especially for Charlotte, Carson City, all rare dates, etc). Hence why a savvy investor and collector simply avoids 'questionable authenticity' coins like this.
"Hence why a savvy investor and collector simply avoids 'questionable authenticity' coins like this."
Isn't it your coin?
Maybe you should send this one & your 1 oz gold from your other thread to our host.
"Would that not, by your own logic, apply conversely to authentic coins? It would. If every characteristic on a counterfeit coin could be found on an authentic coin, does that not also mean that authenticity is indeterminable? Bingo."
"Bingo?" Actually no, it's more like "BONGO!" You must have missed this part of my post: The reverse is also true. Every characteristic found on' a counterfeit coin can eventually be found on a genuine specimen."
Redstone continued: "Assuming that every characteristic on this coin could possibly be found on an authentic coin (which it cannot), that does not prove it is authentic. Merely that it is of indeterminable status."
WARNING: IMO, this comment is one reason why you should choose your coin dealer VERY CAREFULLY as they all are assumed to know something about coin authentication. Sometime in the future, when you have examined enough coins at magnifications greater than 10X so that your opinions on authentication matter, you'll be able to prove to yourself what several here have posted is accurate. Wink, Wink.
I would rather err on the side of caution, as a collector and investor. If you can't prove a coin is real definitively and conclusively, then it should not be graded/certified as authentic. [**AFAIK, that is what the TPGS's do as they guarantee their opinion]. If there is any doubt (which there is a TON with this coin), then I wouldn't certify it as real.
Decades ago, before ANACS was founded, many dealers lost their shirts buying fakes. Thankfully, now there are four major TPGS that keep many of them in business. You can send that "dog" to one of them (I suggest our host) and that should dispell your doubt about its authenticity. Unfortunately, I think you may be well past believing any result that does not match your opinion.
Redstone asked: "Would you buy a graded coin if you found out that the grader(s) thought there was a high chance it was fake? I sure as hell wouldn't. What if inspection/authentication technology improves in the future and it is later proven definitively to be fake? You'd lose all your money, other than in its' bullion value, which for many coins, is substantially less than the price paid (especially for Charlotte, Carson City, all rare dates, etc). Hence why a savvy investor and collector simply avoids 'questionable authenticity' coins like this."
I'll remind folks still reading this thread that "WHAT IF'S ARE FOR AUTHENTICATION EX-PERTS AND CHILDREN." They don't deserve comment except for this: Redstone, I truly hope you send your coin to PCGS and it comes back as a counterfeit! That's because every so often, a kick in the pants keeps a
person HUMBLE! Best of luck.
Let us know the results.