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Thoughts on this Havlicek Pop1
Ozceltics
Posts: 27 ✭✭
I recently won this 1974 Havlicek PSA 10 Pop 1 and was alerted by someone that the right edge is extremely wavy. Upon closer inspection it appears it is definitely not straight and once you see it you can’t unsee it! The more I keep looking at it the worse it almost appears.
What’s the thoughts on this? Could it have been factory miscut? If so wouldn’t it get the “ PSA will also not grade items that do not meet the minimum size requirement (N6), were miscut by the manufacturer (N8)”
Are there any other explanations?
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That sure looks suspicious. However it looks so bad I think it might be a factory mis-cut. A professional card trimmer would likely "fix" that edge, especially with it being the right side without a defined blue border. The cards I have seen posted lately that were trimmed all were cut straight. Card looks small in holder.
I worked at a place that cut thin sheets of fiberglass and a cut like this could be possible if the edge of the paper was right up to the edge of the blade and the blades were a little dull, the blades could "push/tear" the paper and not cut it cleanly.
It would be nice to know where this card was on the sheet, if the right edge of the card was on the end of the sheet, that would increase the chances of my above mentioned cutting problem.
There could also be at least one more explanation, cards back then weren't cut as well as they are now and someone could have been careless in the cutting process. Lots of people don't worry about doing a great job when at work and mistakes happen.
I don't have any experience with this set, so I wouldn't know if this is a cut that might be on other cards. This is one I found on ebay right now;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-TOPPS-257-GEORGE-KARL-RC-SPURS-POP-8-PSA-10-K2723513-616/264403478242?hash=item3d8face6e2:g:EUYAAOSwsZldcTVw
Looks wavy to me, but who knows?
The only way to be somewhat certain would be to examine the edge of the card from the side, that might tell you something, or it might not.
Your other question about PSA not grading it because “ PSA will also not grade items that do not meet the minimum size requirement (N6), were miscut by the manufacturer (N8)” does not necessarily apply here. It might be the correct size and might not qualify as a mis-cut.
You really have three options; Keep it and be happy with a pop 1, return it if it bothers you, or send it to PSA asking for them to re authenticate it.
PWCC has certainly sold it's share of trimmed cards (along with MANY others).
Please keep us informed on the matter.
edited to add; Look at the top left on this "10".
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-TOPPS-240-ROGER-BROWN-PACERS-HOF-POP-5-PSA-10-K2723541-577/264403476833?hash=item3d8face161:g:ZucAAOSwD2JdcTZB
One explanation could be damage of the card after it was holdered. 74 Topps basketball cards were not the greatest in terms cardboard sturdiness. I believe that Topps used a different cardboard stock for a few years and that might help explain it.
Having said that the corners look somewhat suspect to me. Hard to believe the razor sharp corners on this card. Also they appear to have the "bat-ear" appearance which can happen when someone trims a card. I would send it in to PSA to have them take a look. I don't think that card would get a PSA 10 if submitted raw today.
1974 basketball has some of he worst cuts I have ever seen. It's like they brought in a group of monkeys on the weekend to print this set to save some money. I can't see how that card even got into a holder much less garnered a 10. It would never get a 10 today even if they did holder it. I agree with JB, send it in to PSA for review. It may take a little time but they will get back with you. Had one recently that took about a month and a half.
I agree in the fact I don't think anyone trimming cards would leave an edge like that it would defeat the purpose. I'm more concerned this should not have been graded and the more I stare at it the bulge seems to get larger!
I've looked at probably 50 other Havlicek's and it almost does appear that some have slightly wavy edge but this is probably the most extreme.....and its in a 10 holder. I've also tried looking for a photo of an uncut sheet as I was thinking the if this card was on the edge this could be an explanation.
I might wait until it is in hand to see how bad it looks as blown up photos on a screen can make things appear worse, then if I go for a review what is the process? Don't I have to pay the grading fee for them to review? Then if they agree it shouldn't even be holdered they reimburse the market value?
I bought it thinking it would be the finest example available, this still may be true, the pop on the 9s is low and nearly all I have seen are slightly out of focus, print marks, dots etc. Wavy edge aside it is probably the cleanest looking I have seen.
Are those two black dots normal on this card?? They didn’t flag it for PD??
I feel terrible piling on, but unless it's the scan, the card has some focus/registration problems as well. There was a lot to overlook to grade this card a 10.
Factory cut. No need to lose sleep.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
factory cut -- and i agree --these cards were absolutely treacherous
That is a tough card to get in a decent condition. Nice score.
With the consensus being that this is a factory cut card, why then is this really any different than an OPC rough cut? The argument for the OPC cuts is "that's the way it was done" should apply here.
Personally, I don't like any rough cut at all, although for my personal collection, I can tolerate a very minor one. The same goes for centering and tilt, perfect is nice, but I don't want to grow old and die waiting for perfection.
I certainly would NOT give this card a 10 and would have problems even giving it a 9 (if it's big enough to even qualify for encapsulation), it's a pretty ugly card, once you see that right edge, your eyes (mine are, anyway) are drawn to it.
From another (the graders?) point of view, technically speaking, there's no reason for it not to be a 10 unless you want to bring in the subjective "eye appeal" to which I'll kick it back to the OPC rough cut sloppily butchered cards argument.
If the logic used to justify one card being a 10, shouldn't it be applied here as well? There are "rough cut" cards graded 10's that I wouldn't give a 7. I won't waste any time arguing the other merits of the card (focus, print dots), PSA says it's a 10.
If the edge is going to bother you, return it (if you really can, the scan provided clearly shows the cards "problem"), why bother to send it to PSA for their (second) opinion?
If you are just adding it to a registry set and "need" a 10 and are just going to put the card in a box and never look at it again, why not just keep it?
Next time, look at the scan more closely and buy the card, not the holder.
Have fun collecting!
For the amount of coin you dropped on it, you for sure better be happy with it!
A lot of collectors seem to lose their minds on a PSA10 POP 1!
;-)
If by "bat ear" you mean when one of the upper corners flares out slightly toward the top of the card, that is most often caused by the card being on the left or right edge of the uncut sheet. Since such cards are usually the lowest pop, there's a chance this Havlicek is from the edge of the sheet, though I can't find a picture of an uncut sheet from this set to verify.
Eww.
The snow and the fish eye?
Arthur
This card is an edge of sheet card, but it’s on the left edge.
just shaking my head seeing that card in a PSA 10 holder...many very obvious "issues" got "unnoticed" by the grader(s)?