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Forget about doubled, quadruple-Sextuple?🤔
Infamustrueerrors
Posts: 99 ✭
I was still checking and trying to separate doubled dies from multiple strike coins,when this beauty took all my attention,I spent quite some time checking .is a 2009 Lincoln penny the one with the cabin.has a satin kind of finishing, so one or two circles are shades or reflections of the real "doubling" to call it that way but at least 3 time maybe up to 6 times,also the mirror like reflection of the coin got me wondering,there are no proof coins with the D mint mark,they supposed to have an S only?
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For a quad die or higher you would need to be able to see & count an exact number. They are also quite rare.
I'm not bashing your photos but you would need much clearer photos to be able to see a quad or higher.
It is difficult to be certain with the lighting in your pic, but it looks like common strike/mechanical doubling. Not a true doubled die.
Take some time and read up on this under the "worthless doubling" tab at www.doubleddie.com.
May have posted this before, but this is good information in DD vs other forms of doubling:
http://conecaonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/StrikeDoublingFlyer-1.pdf
There are four pages and this is a quick snap shot of page 1.
Yeah not the best pictures but is obvious Is not a regular single date.i just wanted to show that specific doubling.I'll attach pics of the full coin.@hemispherical yes you mentioned those before and I read them too,but this has nothing to do with the worthless doubling.this is the real deal.is an error coin with most errors listed in the same place you can find the "the worthless doubling" you should read the wexler's doubled die varieties listed for the 2009 penny,with the picture of my coin next to it,like a bingo game,and see how many errors you find and match.not only one side,it has DDO and DDR,IF you check this coin has a lot of the keys/markers and doublings, multiple die chips... the doubling in the date is just extra,unique maybe.even if the picture is not clear to count,there's 3 or more for sure.since it matches 100% on multiple doubled die key marks,overse and reverse probes in fact it's a doubled die coin,or 3ple...
I'm a little confused here?
"I was still checking and trying to separate doubled dies from multiple strike coins"
This sounds like you are still learning the difference and are not 100% sure what a true doubled die is.
"but at least 3 time maybe up to 6 times"
This sounds like you are unable to see how many times the die was hubed and are unsure of your findings.
"there are no proof coins with the D mint mark,they supposed to have an S only?"
This sounds like you are unsure of the difference between a business strike and a proof.
"Yeah not the best pictures"
Kind of sounds like you realize we can't see what you are talking about.
"for sure.since it matches 100% on multiple doubled die key marks"
Die markers for a doubled die would not be the same for a tripled or quad die.
Your first statement would make it seem you are not 100% sure about what you are seeing but now you are 100% sure.
"so one or two circles are shades or reflections of the real "doubling" to call it that way"
This sounds like you are having trouble seeing "real doubling" because of reflection & shadows.
I'm not sure what your question is or how to help answer it and it seems you have all the answers yourself.
Am I missing something?
You are not missing anything,you got it.i was separating coins from collections with both doubled die and double striking,I know what they are but I'm not an expert on all the different variations,yes I'm still learning as there's so much to learn about error coins.
-i never asked if it was a doubled die coin,im 100% sure it is a coin minted with a doubled die,they are not all the same but you can always be guided and compare it to key marks on other error coins to be sure.that was an answer for the wrong statement "not a doubled die just a worthless doubling".
Not the best pictures because my equipment was limited to a cellphone camera.i can tell the difference of a doubling from a shadow,that is why I said 2 of the shadows look like hub rings.
I know the difference between a proof and a business coin,but i think you are aware of errors in proof coins,when the mint mark is not there a wrong one.
That is one of the questions.
1--can this be a proof coin made for circulation by mistake?
You can tell the difference from a shadow and a mint mark so as bad as the picture is
2--how many hub ring marks do you see?
And yes I'm unsure of my finding,not about being a proof coin,but on the possibility of multiple doubling,how many marks are there because this is the first time Ive seen a coin like this.
Is it better to understand my 2 questions?
If not,I will try to put it in different words. 👌
I don't see any doubling. If it is there, it is likely machine doubling and thus adds no extra value. See "strike doubling" in the image posted by Hemispherical earlier. Machine doubling is NOT a doubled die, because it is doubled from the strike, not from the die.
This is definitely not a proof coin.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
It is not a proof coin. Besides the obvious fact that proofs are made in San Francisco and your coin was minted in Denver, it doesn't have the squared rims and mirror finish.
Ok this answers the proof part.
Some times we need to know what we are looking for to see it,and might ignore what's right in front of us.
I'll just leave this pictures here,mostly the face.there is about 20 more of the reverse,if still think this are not double die varieties feel free to email the author of that page for false misleading information,as I am based on the identical marks to say it's a doubled
die variety.
It is way shinier than normal,i had to move the camera on an angle for the reflection not to ruin the little the camera can capture. I knew Is not a proof,but is to shiny thats why I had to ask if it could be an error just in case.
"yes I'm still learning as there's so much to learn about error coins."
You are correct, there is much to learn about errors and this is a great place to do it.
Keep an open mind and you will learn more.
"100% sure it is a coin minted with a doubled die,they are not all the same"
All coins struck from the same set of dies will have the same doubling.
"2 of the shadows look like hub rings."
I have never heard of hub rings in the minting process. Where did you find this information?
"can this be a proof coin made for circulation by mistake?"
No
"how many hub ring marks do you see?"
Once again, "I have never heard of hub rings in the minting process" so it would be hard for me to tell you how many I see.
Maybe you or another member here will educate me.
"I knew Is not a proof,but is to shiny thats why I had to ask if it could be an error just in case."
How shiny a coin is has nothing to do with the minting process, a new die may produce proof-like looking coins.
If you have all the markers for the WDDO-001 that you posted above then you have that doubled die.
It could be a new doubled die but would not be the same doubled die with extras.
You should spend a little more time reading about the minting process to help you better understand what
is and what is not an error.
It has all been said above. Read and re-read and re-re-read it if necessary.
Also, with all the focus on supposed double dies. I am surprised you did not mention the line along the left side of the obverse that goes from Liberty to Abe's shoulder.
I can't tell from your photos - the line is raised but is the entire area to the left of the line also raised a bit? Might be a plating issue, a die crack, or the early stages of a retained cud.
Some vid in this thread on the minting process.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1008812/making-money-error-vs-pmd
Yeah I will read more and check for more information, I haven't check everything in the coin.im just asking for feedback on the date numbers,based on the color could be a new die,but I asked if it was a proof because I thought a new die would be perfect and that chip/cracks on a die happened after using them ,unless was minted with a new diffective die that was chipped when it was made since they do run and try different dies Everytime there are transition years,maybe this coin is one minted in the trial of a new die,I not sure of this,is just an idea of a possibility.that being said some of you will say there is many other possibilities and there are.i posted the picture of the date to get professional points of view from the many numismatics with the knowledge either collecting or inspecting coins with any similarities to the numbers.
Alt?
As has been said on this and other forums many times, the mint is in the business of mass producing coins used in commerce. Minor cosmetic nonconformances are not usually a reason to halt the high speed process. Dies used for business strikes, may or may not be perfect. As long as they meet the minimum cosmetic quality limits, production quantities, and cost targets, it’s not an issue
I really think you’re stretching it a bit by even considering the possibility that your coin is a die trial. Have you considered it might just be a nice strike on a decent planchet? That is far more likely than the possibility of an unprecedented Denver Proof Die or a die trial that was released into circulation. Since the only evidence you offer is that the coin is “Shiny”, I’ll take my chances that it’s a normal strike
To paraphrase the 14th Century Franciscan Friar and Philosopher, William of Ockham; The simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation. That holds true in Numismatics as well.
I thought Ockham made razors.