What happened to the thread on the use of MS70?

syl

There were some great side-by-sides of what happens, but I can't find it now. tks

ajaan

It was pulled by PCGS.

Insider2

Taboo subject. Perhaps someone will do a similar experiment on another forum.

syl

Maybe because it inferred that PCGS accepts MS70 treatment and no body bags.

YQQ

how can they know that it is MS 70 treatment? Chemical analysis? ???

Insider2

@YQQ said:
how can they know that it is MS 70 treatment? Chemical analysis? ???

Sometimes just by the color. For example, some coins should not be treated w/MS-70 because specific parts of their surfaces will change to a certain color (NOT BLUE) indicating that chemical was used. It is not possible to show examples here; however, self-experimentation will bring knowledge about these things.

MasonG

@Insider2 said:
however, self-experimentation will bring knowledge about these things.

IMO, this is just about the cheapest education a collector can get. Go buy yourself a bottle of MS70, Ezest, CLR, acetone, ammonia and whatever else you can think of, check out your local coin store for some cheap common toned coins if you don't already have some and try the stuff out to see what happens. Then you'll have a better chance of knowing what you're looking at when buying coins for your collection.

bigjpst

Maybe I should have used a coin graded ATS to show what I believed was a treated coin in a holder instead of our hosts. I didn't create the write up to bash tpgs, only to show my results and start a discussion about whether MS70 treatment is considered market acceptable if used properly. Just like dipping seems to be.
Like I said in the original post, there seems to be one side of the argument that the toning is there and the dark brown color is masking it. Once removed showing the color.
@insider2 stated the experiment I did proved otherwise, but in my probably less informed mind the fact that the BU coin remained unchanged seemed to prove the opposite. Maybe he can elaborate without the photos. I'll see if I have time to post on another forum.

MasonG

Some treatments will almost always be acceptable (soaking in acetone), some rejected (whizzing). In between, is a gray area.
"Market acceptable" can be just about anything, as long as the market accepts it. It's a circular argument, I know.

neildrobertson

Acetone is one of the only things that does not affect the coin in 99+% of situations. Things like MS70 are generally safe for lots of different types of coins, but can still have negative effects on certain coins. Anything that has the potential to damage coin if not used properly is given the blanket recommendation of "Do Not Use". If you are knowledgeable on the application and the chemistry of these different types of treatments they can be used positively for conservation in the appropriate situations.

There is an additional value held by most people that you can always conserve a coin later. Unless there is something insidious that is actively damaging a coin, there is zero harm in doing nothing. If you do nothing, you keep your options open for the future and still completely preserve the quality (or potential quality) of the coin.

Because of this last point, the consensus is that it's best not to educate the masses on how to conserve coins because it will inevitably lead to the irreversible damage of coins (not all coins treated, but some of them). Most coin conservation I've seen has been driven by financial gain. It's done to make the coins look more appealing for sale. The world is probably fine without any of that.

A pet peeve of mine in numismatics is when knowledge is hoarded and kept as trade secrets so that the people "in the know" can capitalize on it. I'm generally against this and would like people to publish and teach as much as possible. Late career people tend to me more forthcoming once they are getting out of the game so to speak. I think the chemical treatment of coins is one of these trade secret areas that is problematic. I'd like to believe there is some way to be more open about everything without causing harm.

bigjpst

Posted the thread on another forum with a couple of new coins added