Today, I went to Stacks for the first time
jkrk
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I walked into the 57 st store around 4:45. I went there to test out their fax prices and it's a short walk from our apt.
I like to test who I'm dealing with so I brought a small lot of coins I really don't care much about. I assumed I would receive 1% under melt.. and call it a day. I brought $10 libs 7 graded, 5 raw (ALL au's).
I walked in and to my surprise the store was empty except for a security guard in front. I waited with my wife a few minutes before Mark came out. He glanced at the graded coins and said he'd pay $720 / pc. I was stunned. Does it matter that I walk in with jeans and a short sleeve shirt? I pull coins out of my pocket like a vagabond. That's me. I remember being introduced to a couple of billionaires as the guy who wears a sweatshirt every day. Management at the firm saw my trading account everyday so I was at least respected by them. LOL I digress, did Mark think the coins were stolen?
I think about the thread on I work in a coin shop as I write this. Some customers are weird. That fits me well. Perhaps I don't understand the art of negotiating? I don't. There are a few of us around. Make me an offer and I'll accept it or pass. Can't be easier than that. I guess most want to negotiate? Maybe Mark expected a negotiation when he pitched $720? I passed. He told me he would too (obligatory?). I guess most sellers would have gone back if they needed the money? If I did, I probably would have taken whatever he offered after a bit of hemming and hawing.
I'm a small seller and this was a nothing deal. Whatever I do means nothing to Stacks.
Maybe it was a bad day? Maybe my timing was poor, and they clearly weren't going to get rich off my business but I was left a bit uncomfortable with the whole meeting.
I'm difficult to deal with so it's no surprise that I won't be going back.
Comments
My dealer friend has told me that, at present, the market on physical gold is trailing the paper market substantially and you cannot move gold unless it is under spot.
Sorry you had a bad visit. Might I suggest visiting again later on, when precious metals prices (and thus, supply and demand) are more stable?
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Was what you were offered substantially less than what is quoted on their daily gold fax?
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Just to add, I called my dealer friend. He said his current bid on $10 Liberty Golds would be $726 right now, and he would sell them for $740 cash. An outlay of $8,712.00 to make $168.00. This number would change tomorrow morning, likely going up.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Sounds like a reasonable offer. Under melt is expected when selling to retail stores right now. They're probably reselling them for melt or not too much over.
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It seems that common date AU gold is now just so much bullion. They apparently didn't need any more.
His offer wasn’t unreasonable. I don’t know if the store honors their daily fax sheet prices.
I'll do the math ....
Spot $1546 x .9675 = $747. SB $740 / coin (1%below) Daily fax using $1536 gold = $739 if take 1% off = $732.
An offer of $720? Lower East side would be proud.
My heritage rep quoted exactly that today on same exact thing!
In this market, its pretty fair, there is so much hanging on the open market that its unherd of
One major player I herd has like 12k $20 Libs in stock with no buyers
.> @jdimmick said:
Then quote $720 on your daily fax.
I don't think you really understand the current market. I went to ANA. prices were very close to melt. Stacks just held an auction and sold a 💩Load of $10's including a PCGS MS63 for $750, some even sold for less. Those prices included buyers premium they sold for $625 plus 20% and no one would beat it. To be accurate a $10 melts $4 more today than they did last week during the auction
I take it that you didn’t mention the daily fax price when you were there? If not, why not?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Perceptive.
I value honesty above all. I have to like those I deal with.
I was more interested in understanding whether Stacks would be local resource than selling a few coins.
Just trade them for nice $2.50 libs in 65
He who knows he has enough is rich.
I don’t think his offer was great especially with gold up today, but it’s not completely unreasonable. Agree, $740 based on the gold sheet would be a good offer.
Did you show them a copy of their daily gold fax? I have no idea if the store honors the fax sheet and what type of relationship exists between the store and StacksBowers.
You went in knowing their fax prices, but didn't mention it?
Just sayin'.
From the bottom of the sheet:
ALL TRADES MUST BE CONFIRMED
Bid indications are for Sight Seen coins.
All prices are indications only and are subject to change without notice. Quantities are subject to availability.
And, if you feel this situation is important enough to call people out by their real name in your post, you should have the courage to sign with your real name also.
You wanted $739 offered $720 for 10 coins the difference is $190 on a $7k+ deal. You probably didn't buy these yesterday and as long as you didn't buy them at $2k gold you were looking at a tidy profit.
Edit: you wanted $732 ? You blew a $7k+ deal over 120 bucks.
Do > @scubafuel said:
Jay Kaplan
Blew a deal?
Using your words.... For $120 bucks I learned who I have no interest in dealing with. Cheap information.
Apmex is selling $10 Libs at $769 today with free shipping.
$720 is a fair offer. 98% of spot is pretty normal as it is hard to get 99% and you probably have to ship them to get the lousy 1%.
Your math is faulty. These are the actual #'s:
Number 1. ** No one needs your coins** especially a large nationally known dealer. If you had died and neglected to educate your family about the value of your coins they may have sold them to someone for much less.
Number 2. Published prices mean nothing. Buy low and sell high is a very good business practice that should guarantee a profit for any dealer. Are you implying that if you walked in all dressed up that rule would be set aside because of a snazzy bow tie?
Number 3. Most of the dealer's I know would rather work with an honest, informed customer. "No games!" Perhaps you would have done better letting the employee know it was your first (of many future) visit, you live close by, and follow the coin market. Sometime in the future you may be interested in selling some coins such as these and you wished to get an idea of their buy prices in today's market. Otherwise, just ask to see the same coins you have in the dealers stock to see his retail prices. Then ask what he would pay for the coin he shows you.
PS IMO, you are the loser. Dealers like regular customers. With a major dealer just a few blocks from your home, you still may have an opportunity to start a rewarding relationship that many of us can never have.
Far too often, these sort of situations end up as a train wreck, but it sounds like it worked out well for all concerned. Good to hear.
BTW, from their own sheet they are paying $745 for slabbed 61s. What should AU50 price be then? Maybe $730.
You don't know a fair price if it bit you ( fill in the blank). Not fair is the "we buy gold guys" offering you 300 bucks a coin. You do know Stacks has to pay bills.
I don't think you ever really wanted to sell those you were trolling for bites.
I don't know where you got the 1% number. You have to go directly to a market maker to get 99% of melt. Any retail establishment is going to be at 98% or even 97%. They were hardly getting rich at that number.
The bottom half of the sheet shows raw prices and quotes AU as $739.
Actually, I think his post states right up front that he was sizing-up a potential dealer by checking out his buy prices.
I know, but those are sight seen prices. The OP said he had slabbed Libs and those are what he offered on.
Either way, nobody was getting rich on that deal.
The ones that are subject to change without notice? Perhaps if he had mentioned the fax and that he could be a regular customer, the dealer might have been willing to be more accommodating with his offer? I guess we'll never know.
I’m not commenting on the offer, itself, but the OP’s cost is (or should be) irrelevant, as is when he acquired the coins. And he didn’t blow any deal.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And he expected 99% and was offered 97.5% on a day that gold had just jumped 1% in minutes.
I'm not saying they shouldn't have honored the fax price, assuming that fax price is good at the store, but it is hardly high crimes and misdemeanors.
No one needs my coins period.
I am focusing on your published price on sept 3, gold moves up $10 / oz and you're bidding lower than the printed price? The buyer is entitled to pay anything he/she wants at the moment so I'm not pressuring him. I'm simply relating my experience. I wasn't a happy camper. When you do publish a price Is it my fault for looking at the fax?
Must be.
I am a bit unique. I would rather work with a straight up dealer. No games. I had an expectation of price based on the fax. I would never pull out a printed price during a conversation and try to hold anyone to it. If I never saw the fax and accepted $720 would I be the "uninformed seller" ? I will say if the fax said $720 +/ then I would never have bothered to make the walk and this thread would never have started. I was disappointed in the meeting. AS I said before it could be me? They may be great guys but..... my experience is my experience.
Personally, I wouldn't expect anyone to honor any price offered when their offer is contingent on confirmation. But that's just me.
Coming in at the end of the day is typically going to get you lower 'buy' prices, anywhere you want to go.
Smart time is about 15 or 20 minutes after everybody is back from lunch.
Bullion market is somewhat volatile right now, doesn't help. Spot might be down $50 overnight.
Your business. You may do what you want with it.
I have never sold to Stacks but have bought a ton of their gold at melt in their auctions ( because no one is paying more at auction these days for semi bullion gold). They also took back a $1600 coin I bought in the last ANA auction because I found an issue they missed, they were as easy as could be taking it back. Anybody that thinks Stacks is not an honorable coin dealer is very much mistaken.
I'm not sure that the OP meant to say that.
There's a lot of convolved issues here:
1. The quote was from 6:45 in the morning and this was 10 hours later. Gold had crept up since then, but that doesn't mean that Stack's had the same interest level. Maybe they bought 10,000 of them during the day.
2. Getting "random clerk" at the counter should NEVER lead to a judgment about the whole company. Might simply be a mistake from the clerk not company policy.
3. One experience should not be extrapolated beyond the one experience.
4. The coins are the OPs. He is free to shop them around on any terms he wants. If he insists on 101% of melt, that's his right.
If I go to 5 star restaurant and had a less than stellar meal does it mean the restaurant should close?
I may have been there when everyone was tired?
I am not advocating that anyone should cease doing business with them. Even I have bad days.
Today might have been mine?
Best of all, this is "free" publicity! LOL.
New thread for B&M dealer members on CU: Make up a story about your store and get some free props.
Not trying to give you a hard time here- honestly. Have you considered that the fax you mentioned wasn't an unconditional offer to buy and that the buyer reserved the right to change prices without alerting you?
You asked what should AU 50 prices be, and I was saying that the sheet said 739 for raw AU. So that is what AU 50 prices should be if the sheet is being followed for an in-person transaction.
I’m not saying anyone was getting rich. And it wasn’t a bad offer. I do somewhat agree with the OP that it’s annoying that the sheet isn’t being followed. I also agree with the posters who say that the OP should have mentioned the sheet and asked if those prices are applicable.
In the end, I don’t think Stacks nor the OP lost out on much. All of us commenting though, that’s another story...
Oh what drama 1% can cause. LOL
I'll chime in -
You probably had a bad day. It seems much was caused by faulty assumptions (assuming a 1% under spot bid and that the fax quote prices would be static throughout the day).
Anybody who buys bullion or collectables would be wise to first sell bullion or collectables before building a position or building a collection. It wakes you up fast to what you will be buying is worth.
In a fast rising market, assuming you purchased the gold coins at a much lower price, locking in some profits makes sense, but sometimes you give up a point or two for the convenience of sellling on your time frame. Overall, it is still a win.
I don't know Stacks, but I would bet almost anything that they act fairly and consistently with any walk-in or seller they encounter - at least with bullion items.
high rent area...
Without going into details I was paid $740/coin today for (12) Liberty AU's $10 gold.
That's the price. Everything else is an urban legend.
???? I'm confused.
About what?
The urban legend mostly
Everyone has theory about what the coins are worth and why. I read what dealers are paying and selling the coins for.
All I'm saying to everyone is that I received $740 today with no BS and stories.