Justin Verlander Pitches 3rd Career No-Hitter

14 Ks, only one walk, to the 2nd batter of the game.

Beat Toronto 2-0, thanks to 2-run homer by Abraham Toro in the 9th inning.

Only the 6th pitcher in history with 3 career no hitters.

Steve

Comments

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,484 ✭✭✭

    The five other pitchers with three or more no hitters:

    7 - Nolan Ryan
    4 - Sandy Koufax
    3 - Cy Young
    3 - Bob Feller
    3 - Larry Corcoran

    Steve

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 7,414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    they should have pulled him at 100 pitches :#

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excellent. Love the no hitters.

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 19,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:
    Excellent. Love the no hitters.

    Big whoopy...….my least favorite stat. I do like to see Ryan at the top of the list with as many as 2 of the others combined.


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  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DIMEMAN said:

    @Coinstartled said:
    Excellent. Love the no hitters.

    Big whoopy...….my least favorite stat. I do like to see Ryan at the top of the list with as many as 2 of the others combined.

    Jon...you have ruined Verlander's day. Hope Kate can make him feel better.

  • BaltimoreYankeeBaltimoreYankee Posts: 2,483 ✭✭✭

    Dude really came back to life once he joined Houston. Great achievement to have 3 no hitters!

    Daniel
  • DarinDarin Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭✭

    What are his chances of the Cy Young this year?
    May have to continue with my Verlander basic set.
    Quit working on it a few years ago when he was struggling, now see his topps
    rookie in PSA 10 is over $100. Not bad.

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  • orioles93orioles93 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭

    @Darin said:
    What are his chances of the Cy Young this year?
    May have to continue with my Verlander basic set.
    Quit working on it a few years ago when he was struggling, now see his topps
    rookie in PSA 10 is over $100. Not bad.

    He should be the front runner for AL Cy Young at the moment. Leads the league in wins, ERA, IP, SO, ERA+, and WHIP. His teammate Gerrit Cole is the only real competition for the award other than Verlander. His WHIP is 0.77, which would be the 3rd best single season mark all time behind Pedro Martinez in 2000 and Guy Hecker in 1882.

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  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019 3:48AM

    In this day and age Innings is so important.
    so many pitchers have arms that peter out quickly.
    A guy like Verlander is just a plain ole fashioned beast.

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  • TabeTabe Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭

    @orioles93 said:

    @Darin said:
    What are his chances of the Cy Young this year?
    May have to continue with my Verlander basic set.
    Quit working on it a few years ago when he was struggling, now see his topps
    rookie in PSA 10 is over $100. Not bad.

    He should be the front runner for AL Cy Young at the moment. Leads the league in wins, ERA, IP, SO, ERA+, and WHIP. His teammate Gerrit Cole is the only real competition for the award other than Verlander. His WHIP is 0.77, which would be the 3rd best single season mark all time behind Pedro Martinez in 2000 and Guy Hecker in 1882.

    Verlander has been unreal. Clearly the best pitcher in the AL this year - and, yet, he doesn't lead in WAR. Mike Minor does.

    Verlander leads Minor in: Starts, IP, Hits Allowed, BB, K, ERA, ERA+, WHIP, H/9, BB/9, K/BB, K/9. Minor leads in homers allowed and is tied in CG and shutouts.

    So how is Minor ahead - by a full win - in WAR?

  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭

    I don't know all the details of how WAR is calculated, but it appears that Minor has faced tougher opponents than Verlander. This seems odd since they're in the same division, and I'm not going to go back over each of their game logs to add it all up, but for Minor's opponents the expected runs scored against an average pitcher (RA9avg on bbref) is 6.06, and Minor allowed 3.27 (not his ERA, unearned runs are included), or 2.79 runs less than expected. For Verlander, the stats are 4.87 and 2.66, or 2.11 runs less than expected. Part of this - since unearned runs are included - is that Verlander has a better defense behind him than Minor. That would hold true of any pitchers for the Astros and Rangers, and it implies that a replacement pitcher on the Astros would be expected to give up fewer runs than a replacement pitcher on the Rangers. So, in a sense, a replacement pitcher on the Astros is better than a replacement pitcher on the Rangers, and Minor is beating his replacement pitcher by more than Verlander is beating his replacement pitcher.

    All of the above was provided solely to answer your question; I agree that Verlander has been a better pitcher than Minor this year, and that the stats you reference paint a clearer picture than WAR. I think, but can't say for certain because I don't know all the details, that the difference comes down in large part to the treatment of unearned runs. ERA+ ignores them completely and places zero blame on the pitcher for these runs, which I think is a deficiency in ERA+, but WAR treats them as effectively the equivalent of earned runs and places too much blame on the pitcher for these runs. So ERA+ is wrong in this regard, but WAR appears to be wronger.

    P.S. I guess a part of why Minor's opponents have been tougher than Verlander's is that Minor has to face the Astros and Verlander gets to face the Rangers. That's not enough to account for a difference of 1.2 runs per game, but it could be chunk of it.

    dallasactuary

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  • Skin2Skin2 Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭

    @dallasactuary said:
    I don't know all the details of how WAR is calculated, but it appears that Minor has faced tougher opponents than Verlander. This seems odd since they're in the same division, and I'm not going to go back over each of their game logs to add it all up, but for Minor's opponents the expected runs scored against an average pitcher (RA9avg on bbref) is 6.06, and Minor allowed 3.27 (not his ERA, unearned runs are included), or 2.79 runs less than expected. For Verlander, the stats are 4.87 and 2.66, or 2.11 runs less than expected. Part of this - since unearned runs are included - is that Verlander has a better defense behind him than Minor. That would hold true of any pitchers for the Astros and Rangers, and it implies that a replacement pitcher on the Astros would be expected to give up fewer runs than a replacement pitcher on the Rangers. So, in a sense, a replacement pitcher on the Astros is better than a replacement pitcher on the Rangers, and Minor is beating his replacement pitcher by more than Verlander is beating his replacement pitcher.

    All of the above was provided solely to answer your question; I agree that Verlander has been a better pitcher than Minor this year, and that the stats you reference paint a clearer picture than WAR. I think, but can't say for certain because I don't know all the details, that the difference comes down in large part to the treatment of unearned runs. ERA+ ignores them completely and places zero blame on the pitcher for these runs, which I think is a deficiency in ERA+, but WAR treats them as effectively the equivalent of earned runs and places too much blame on the pitcher for these runs. So ERA+ is wrong in this regard, but WAR appears to be wronger.

    P.S. I guess a part of why Minor's opponents have been tougher than Verlander's is that Minor has to face the Astros and Verlander gets to face the Rangers. That's not enough to account for a difference of 1.2 runs per game, but it could be chunk of it.

    The defense is the pitcher. The rest of the players just catch the balls that are 90% routine. Don't be fooled by the rare highlight reel play that is always shown on TV...those plays are rare. Most plays in the field can be fielded by minor league players without skipping a beat.

    If WAR is using team defensive ability as a measurement of the pitcher in the calculation, no wonder why WAR gets it wrong so much. It is actually the other way around, a pitcher makes the defense look good by providing them balls that are catchable, rather than ones that are hit hard in the gaps, out of the park, or given freely via a base on balls.

    Also, Verlander takes his defense more out of the equation with so many strikeouts. Verlander strikeout to walk ratio is an insane 7.34. That shows his effectiveness more so than the random outcome if a ball finds a hole, or if it just happens to get hit right at someone .

    Minor is simply getting lucky this year that his batted balls are going to the fielders instead of the holes. Minor will soon revert back to the 4.00 ERA pitcher he truly is.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 5,720 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Skin2 said:

    @dallasactuary said:
    I don't know all the details of how WAR is calculated, but it appears that Minor has faced tougher opponents than Verlander. This seems odd since they're in the same division, and I'm not going to go back over each of their game logs to add it all up, but for Minor's opponents the expected runs scored against an average pitcher (RA9avg on bbref) is 6.06, and Minor allowed 3.27 (not his ERA, unearned runs are included), or 2.79 runs less than expected. For Verlander, the stats are 4.87 and 2.66, or 2.11 runs less than expected. Part of this - since unearned runs are included - is that Verlander has a better defense behind him than Minor. That would hold true of any pitchers for the Astros and Rangers, and it implies that a replacement pitcher on the Astros would be expected to give up fewer runs than a replacement pitcher on the Rangers. So, in a sense, a replacement pitcher on the Astros is better than a replacement pitcher on the Rangers, and Minor is beating his replacement pitcher by more than Verlander is beating his replacement pitcher.

    All of the above was provided solely to answer your question; I agree that Verlander has been a better pitcher than Minor this year, and that the stats you reference paint a clearer picture than WAR. I think, but can't say for certain because I don't know all the details, that the difference comes down in large part to the treatment of unearned runs. ERA+ ignores them completely and places zero blame on the pitcher for these runs, which I think is a deficiency in ERA+, but WAR treats them as effectively the equivalent of earned runs and places too much blame on the pitcher for these runs. So ERA+ is wrong in this regard, but WAR appears to be wronger.

    P.S. I guess a part of why Minor's opponents have been tougher than Verlander's is that Minor has to face the Astros and Verlander gets to face the Rangers. That's not enough to account for a difference of 1.2 runs per game, but it could be chunk of it.

    The defense is the pitcher. The rest of the players just catch the balls that are 90% routine. Don't be fooled by the rare highlight reel play that is always shown on TV...those plays are rare. Most plays in the field can be fielded by minor league players without skipping a beat.

    If WAR is using team defensive ability as a measurement of the pitcher in the calculation, no wonder why WAR gets it wrong so much. It is actually the other way around, a pitcher makes the defense look good by providing them balls that are catchable, rather than ones that are hit hard in the gaps, out of the park, or given freely via a base on balls.

    Also, Verlander takes his defense more out of the equation with so many strikeouts. Verlander strikeout to walk ratio is an insane 7.34. That shows his effectiveness more so than the random outcome if a ball finds a hole, or if it just happens to get hit right at someone .

    Minor is simply getting lucky this year that his batted balls are going to the fielders instead of the holes. Minor will soon revert back to the 4.00 ERA pitcher he truly is.

    Good post!

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