@galaxy27 said:
completely wrecked that game last night, including another house call.
meh shitty coaching to let one guy do all that, they needed to double team him at least some of the time at least , but they never made any adjustment at all . Even at halftime they didn't do anything
he gets pumped for Primetime games or really bad coaching in this one game let him shine.
He was better in the game than the official stats indicate even. He was all over the backfield up in Jimmy G's grill the whole game but what did he have 6 hits on the QB ?
Its like the 49's staff not just ignored him but mailed him their playbook on Tuesday
@JoeBanzai said:
16 solo tackles and 3 sacks for the year. He has scored 2 touchdowns this year.
Nice game against the 49ers, other than that?
MEH
JoeBanzai's parochial world, population 3 (dd agreed with his post and bronco is doubling down instead of refusing to admit he was wrong about Clowney)
if you convert everything he has done this season into sacks, he'd have about 15 at this juncture:
16 solos, 5 tackles for loss, 3 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 2 fumbles recovered (including a scoop and score two nights ago), and a pick six thru 10 weeks. is that truly MEH to you? please confirm so you can lose credibility in the eyes of everyone who reads this and provide a good chuckle at the same time.
"nice" game against the Niners? it was the best performance i've seen by a lineman i've seen in a long, long time. as i said up above, he absolutely wrecked the game. very LT-esque.
would love for the resident Hawks fan @Dave99B to chime in and give his honest assessment of Clowney's season thus far. i'm willing to go out on a very tenuous limb and say he will not describe it as MEH.
OK, he had a GREAT game against the 49ers, he was probably a/the difference maker in that game. Looks like he did ok against the Falcons, other than that he hasn't done ANYTHING statistically.
For a guy who you seem to be ready to nominate for all time all sport GOAT, I see a very "hyped" athlete who doesn't sack the quarterback much OR make very many tackles.
4 solo tackles through his first 6 games. 1 sack through his first 7 games. He has ONE big game and you lose your mind. Get real.
@bronco2078 said:
he gets pumped for Primetime games or really bad coaching in this one game let him shine.
He was better in the game than the official stats indicate even. He was all over the backfield up in Jimmy G's grill the whole game but what did he have 6 hits on the QB ?
Its like the 49's staff not just ignored him but mailed him their playbook on Tuesday
Pro Footbal reference says he had 5 QB hits in the 49ers game. He had 4 in the Atlanta game and 3 in the other 8 games combined.
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Ziggy Ansah and Jarran Reed have 2.5 sacks between them...very disappointing so far. In fact, I think Ansah may be done. Very little pressue on the QB from those guys, although their run D is decent. I'd pretty sure Ansah is playing injured. No excuses for Reed.
As a result, Clowney gets double teamed regularly. He's shown good effort all year. Forget the box score. Watch a Hawks game a focus on him. He's disruptive as hell. He's obviously auditioning for a huge contract next year, and will get it. Love the guy, and his effort. Just not sure he'll be here next year, as the Hawks have a so much $$$ tied up in Russell, but who knows. No way we go 8-2 without Clowney. He's a Beast.
Dave
Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
OK, he had a GREAT game against the 49ers, he was probably a/the difference maker in that game. Looks like he did ok against the Falcons, other than that he hasn't done ANYTHING statistically.
For a guy who you seem to be ready to nominate for all time all sport GOAT, I see a very "hyped" athlete who doesn't sack the quarterback much OR make very many tackles.
4 solo tackles through his first 6 games. 1 sack through his first 7 games. He has ONE big game and you lose your mind. Get real.
i have no problem with you personally, and i certainly don't have a problem with you opining. but when the content of your blathering causes a subconjunctival hemorrhage, rest assured i'm going to say something because i don't like blood spots on the white of my eyes.
since you are making love to solo tackles and sacks, how about we discuss plays that are worth exceedingly more to a team?
plays that you are, not surprisingly, conveniently glossing over? moreover, how about we lower this to a first-grade level and convert said plays into sacks so you can have a lucid understanding of what kind of player Clowney is and what type of season he is actually having?
this should be fun.
tell me Joe, how many sacks is a forced fumble that is recovered by the defense worth? Clowney has 3 of those.
how about fumbles personally recovered? Clowney has two of those.
how about interceptions? Clowney has one of those.
how about touchdowns? you know, that thing where a player adds points to his team's total? Odell Beckham has one. Jadeveon Clowney, who plays defense, has two. help me out here, is a touchdown worth more than a sack?
aside from that "minutiae," if you actually watched the games from beginning to end, you'd see what type of impact Clowney has beyond actual numbers. case in point: two nights ago the Niners called a play-action pass that had perfection written all over it. everyone went left, Jimmy G faked a handoff to Tevin Coleman and then rolled right, and there he was -- a WR with nothing but green turf ahead of him. except there was one slight problem. this dude named Jadeveon Clowney didn't bite. not only did he not bite, but he then used his sublime vertical to force a throw that sailed over the head of the wide receiver. had he not been there, it would have -- at the very least -- been a 30-40 yard pass play. who knows, maybe he disrupted a trip to the house. when you can find that exact play in the stats sheet, come find me and i'll be willing to forgive you for being such a myopic contributor to this here thread.
edit: as i type this, DaveB99 -- a guy who has watched more of JC than even i have -- interpolated his wisdom. thanks, Dave.....couldn't agree more. but i'm sure JoeB and his two sycophants will look at solos and sacks and tell you how wrong you are.
i think it's time for me to channel my inner stevek..........man there are some people in here who don't know chit about football
Clowney is a beast and a very disruptive player that the QB had better account for on all plays. Anyone who does not see this is either not paying attention or doesn't like him for some personnel reason. I would LOVE to see a STAR on his helmet!
@JoeBanzai said:
Apparently you have a problem with my posts.
OK, he had a GREAT game against the 49ers, he was probably a/the difference maker in that game. Looks like he did ok against the Falcons, other than that he hasn't done ANYTHING statistically.
For a guy who you seem to be ready to nominate for all time all sport GOAT, I see a very "hyped" athlete who doesn't sack the quarterback much OR make very many tackles.
4 solo tackles through his first 6 games. 1 sack through his first 7 games. He has ONE big game and you lose your mind. Get real.
@bronco2078 said:
he gets pumped for Primetime games or really bad coaching in this one game let him shine.
He was better in the game than the official stats indicate even. He was all over the backfield up in Jimmy G's grill the whole game but what did he have 6 hits on the QB ?
Its like the 49's staff not just ignored him but mailed him their playbook on Tuesday
Pro Footbal reference says he had 5 QB hits in the 49ers game. He had 4 in the Atlanta game and 3 in the other 8 games combined.
it seemed to me like he had double digit QB hits , I count it as a hit when you pick an O-line guy off his feet and beat him over the QB's head. the NFL doesn't log that I guess .
i have no problem with you personally, and i certainly don't have a problem with you opining. but when the content of your blathering causes a subconjunctival hemorrhage, rest assured i'm going to say something because i don't like blood spots on the white of my eyes.
Sorry you have a headache.
since you are making love to solo tackles and sacks, how about we discuss plays that are worth exceedingly more to a team?
plays that you are, not surprisingly, conveniently glossing over? moreover, how about we lower this to a first-grade level and convert said plays into sacks so you can have a lucid understanding of what kind of player Clowney is and what type of season he is actually having?
this should be fun.
tell me Joe, how many sacks is a forced fumble that is recovered by the defense worth? Clowney has 3 of those.
That's good!
how about fumbles personally recovered? Clowney has two of those.
Fine, he was at the right place at the right time, that's good.
how about interceptions? Clowney has one of those.
Nice, but I'm not going to get too excited about 1 interception every 10 games. Returning it for a TD was very good.
how about touchdowns? you know, that thing where a player adds points to his team's total? Odell Beckham has one. Jadeveon Clowney, who plays defense, has two. help me out here, is a touchdown worth more than a sack?
Yes, I saw he had two touchdowns, that's nice! Who cares about Odell Beckham, we're discussing a defensive player. Beckham appears to be having his worst season, what's your point?
aside from that "minutiae," if you actually watched the games from beginning to end, you'd see what type of impact Clowney has beyond actual numbers. case in point: two nights ago the Niners called a play-action pass that had perfection written all over it. everyone went left, Jimmy G faked a handoff to Tevin Coleman and then rolled right, and there he was -- a WR with nothing but green turf ahead of him. except there was one slight problem. this dude named Jadeveon Clowney didn't bite. not only did he not bite, but he then used his sublime vertical to force a throw that sailed over the head of the wide receiver. had he not been there, it would have -- at the very least -- been a 30-40 yard pass play. who knows, maybe he disrupted a trip to the house.
So, he was where he was supposed to be, that's good. Not getting fooled on a play action pass WOW.
>
when you can find that exact play in the stats sheet, come find me and i'll be willing to forgive you for being such a myopic contributor to this here thread.
Gee, thanks for the education. Sacks and tackles are worthless, good to know! I also know 1.6 tackles and 1/3 of a sack per game are not great numbers, and that's a FACT. You go on about him like he's the greatest defensive player in the history of Pro Football.
edit: as i type this, DaveB99 -- a guy who has watched more of JC than even i have -- interpolated his wisdom. thanks, Dave.....couldn't agree more. but i'm sure JoeB and his two sycophants will look at solos and sacks and tell you how wrong you are.
i think it's time for me to channel my inner stevek..........man there are some people in here who don't know chit about football
You are certainly right about that!
We will have a perfect opportunity to see how good he is on December 2nd Monday Night Football. This is the kind of game he actually shows up for, right?
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@DIMEMAN said:
Clowney is a beast and a very disruptive player that the QB had better account for on all plays. Anyone who does not see this is either not paying attention or doesn't like him for some personnel reason. I would LOVE to see a STAR on his helmet!
I'll let you know what I think in a couple of weeks.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
I'll let you know what I think in a couple of weeks.
you mean you're actually going to watch a game and break a player down with your own two eyes, as opposed to spewing ESPN's highlighted row of stats in determining how dominant or how "meh" a player is?
it's a good start for you
edit: and by the way, no one on your entire defense has a touchdown this season. so if you didn't like my Beckham comparison, how about Clowney 2, the entire Vikings defense 0? what type of infantile reply will you come up with next if making a game-changing, scoreboard-rattling play like that is so easy, yet not a single player on the Minny D has been able to make one thru 10 weeks?
your posts are rather humorous when you get cornered and have no place to go
I'll let you know what I think in a couple of weeks.
you mean you're actually going to watch a game and break a player down with your own two eyes, as opposed to spewing ESPN's highlighted row of stats in determining how dominant or how "meh" a player is?
it's a good start for you
edit: and by the way, no one on your entire defense has a touchdown this season. so if you didn't like my Beckham comparison, how about Clowney 2, the entire Vikings defense 0? what type of infantile reply will you come up with next if making a game-changing, scoreboard-rattling play like that is so easy, yet not a single player on the Minny D has been able to make one thru 10 weeks?
your posts are rather humorous when you get cornered and have no place to go
Unlike some posters, I do not live and die for sports. I watch the Vikings almost every week, but if there's a family function, I put that as a priority. I am not going to take the time to watch Clowney or any other player, I might watch a playoff game or two and usually the Super Bowl. But I won't have a nervous breakdown if I don't.
I have been hearing they Clowney hype for a long time now and I am sure he is a wonderful athlete and I guess he is a "beast" and very "disruptive". It might be nice if he tackled a guy now and then while he's out there.
Yes, he has scored a couple of TDs this year and the Vikings defense has not. He has scored 4 TDs in 5 years. That's very nice.
I never said he was a bum, I simply pointed out that he didn't make a lot of tackles and you went nuts. Most ELITE linebackers make more than 1 1/2 tackles a game.
You FINALLY pointed out a couple of things he does well on the football field after a bunch of posts ridiculing me for having an opinion that differs from yours.
Cornered, not really.
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@Dave99B said: @JoeBanzai - I am not going to take the time to watch Clowney or any other player
Hmmmm….this may be the root of the problem.
Maybe not watching players impacts your analysis of their performance on the field? It's a longshot, but I thought I'd ask
Dave
Of course.
I never saw Dick Butkus play either (or was too young to remember it) but I think he was a great defender. There's no record of the number of tackles back then, but he intercepted a lot of passes and grabbed a LOT of fumbles in his day, he only scored one TD in his entire career and that was in his last year.
I did see Alan Page play and (like you Clowney guys) think he was one of the very best to ever play the game.
I'll say it again, I never said he was a bad football player, all I did was point out that he didn't spend a lot of time actually tackling the guy with the ball. This is indisputable.
I also said he might be like Anthony Barr of the Vikings, Barr is all-pro and doesn't seem (to me) to do much on the field. Big, strong and fast though. He does make more tackles than Clowney, but most players do. He doesn't make the "big plays" that Clowney occasionally does though.
Possibly if some of you Clowney lovers would give examples of his greatness (galaxy finally tossed in a couple) instead of calling me an idiot, you might give me reason to doubt the numbers.
I still don't see him as a top tier defender. He needs to grab a few ballcarriers and tackle them instead of just "disruptive forcing" them.
I'll see him in a couple of weeks and I might have a different opinion then.
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@JoeBanzai said:
I did see Alan Page play and (like you Clowney guys) think he was one of the very best to ever play the game.
I'll say it again, I never said he was a bad football player, all I did was point out that he didn't spend a lot of time actually tackling the guy with the ball. This is indisputable.
This is one of many elements that informs my opinion that identifying a GOAT in football is impossible. Will the GOAT cornerback intercept the most passes? He might as a rookie, but once everyone sees how great he is, he won't intercept that many again, because QBs will stop throwing in his direction. The interception leader could very well end up being the other cornerback on the same team. If you watch every game this team plays, you might see this. But if you look at stats of players you never saw play, you won't see this. You'll think the other CB was better than the GOAT. How valuable was it to the Vikings to have Alan Page not only tackling the runners that did come his way, but also forcing the other team to change its offense so they weren't running at Page as often? No way to know, of course, but surely there was value there.
Disentangling the ability of one corner from the other on the same team is child's play compared to disentangling the ability of a QB from the abilities of the other ten players on the field with him, and then comparing that QB's ability to the ability of another QB on a different team, after disentangling that QB's ability from the abilities of the other ten players on the field with him. The QB comparison is, in fact, impossible, even when comparing two QBs in the same division in the same year. Comparing a QB from one era to the QB from another era is laughably impossible, which is why so many people "count rings" or other such nonsense. I take "Tom Brady was better than Johnny Unitas" as seriously as I would take a blind man's declaration of the best binoculars.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
I take "Tom Brady was better than Johnny Unitas" as seriously as I would take a blind man's declaration of the best binoculars.
So its impossibly difficult so unitas is better?
No one cares about these old fossils that were great in 1922
I check every channel on Sunday and none of them show me Unitas playing.
These are just dumb jocks . They never do anything important enough to remember decades later.
Did Johnny Unitas create the polio vaccine? No . Invent the light bulb ? No . Guess I don't care about him.
I care about tom brady because I am a pats fan, when he retires (soon) I won't care anymore. I won't be buying any TB- 12 beet and watercress smoothies or 12 jerseys , I may stop watching if the team sucks , who cares?
You stat dweebs always trying to pretend sports actually matter It doesn't and it never will
i'm supposed to be mad at you in this thread...........stop making me giggle like a teenaged girl
I dont know why , I would let him on my team I just wouldnt overpay him.
I wouldn't pay jj watt either, sure he is great but can he play a half season at least?
was kidding. to your point earlier, i don't know why they didn't give those poor tackles some help either. at least stick a TE on his side and chip him for crying out loud. anything at all to slow him down even a millisecond. only thing i saw all game long was a beeline to Jimmy G and a mauling along the way there
@JoeBanzai said:
I did see Alan Page play and (like you Clowney guys) think he was one of the very best to ever play the game.
I'll say it again, I never said he was a bad football player, all I did was point out that he didn't spend a lot of time actually tackling the guy with the ball. This is indisputable.
This is one of many elements that informs my opinion that identifying a GOAT in football is impossible. Will the GOAT cornerback intercept the most passes? He might as a rookie, but once everyone sees how great he is, he won't intercept that many again, because QBs will stop throwing in his direction. The interception leader could very well end up being the other cornerback on the same team. If you watch every game this team plays, you might see this. But if you look at stats of players you never saw play, you won't see this. You'll think the other CB was better than the GOAT. How valuable was it to the Vikings to have Alan Page not only tackling the runners that did come his way, but also forcing the other team to change its offense so they weren't running at Page as often? No way to know, of course, but surely there was value there.
Disentangling the ability of one corner from the other on the same team is child's play compared to disentangling the ability of a QB from the abilities of the other ten players on the field with him, and then comparing that QB's ability to the ability of another QB on a different team, after disentangling that QB's ability from the abilities of the other ten players on the field with him. The QB comparison is, in fact, impossible, even when comparing two QBs in the same division in the same year. Comparing a QB from one era to the QB from another era is laughably impossible, which is why so many people "count rings" or other such nonsense. I take "Tom Brady was better than Johnny Unitas" as seriously as I would take a blind man's declaration of the best binoculars.
True, the Vikings have a good/great corner in Xaviar Rhodes, the opposing teams just don't throw to his side of the field.
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I take "Tom Brady was better than Johnny Unitas" as seriously as I would take a blind man's declaration of the best binoculars.
So its impossibly difficult so unitas is better?
No one cares about these old fossils that were great in 1922
I check every channel on Sunday and none of them show me Unitas playing.
These are just dumb jocks . They never do anything important enough to remember decades later.
Did Johnny Unitas create the polio vaccine? No . Invent the light bulb ? No . Guess I don't care about him.
I care about tom brady because I am a pats fan, when he retires (soon) I won't care anymore. I won't be buying any TB- 12 beet and watercress smoothies or 12 jerseys , I may stop watching if the team sucks , who cares?
You stat dweebs always trying to pretend sports actually matter It doesn't and it never will
This was a fabulous rant. I have no idea how it relates to what I said, or even what it means, but it was very entertaining.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
You guys had me worried, but Clowney was a no show last night.
Couldn't do anything against a back up left tackle in the second half. He didn't seem to be showing much effort on a lot of plays. I did see him make a tackle when no one blocked him and one where he pursued the running back downfield after a nice gain.
Meh.
Title of thread should be changed to "Seattle LOSES Jadeveon Clowney Sweepstakes"!
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You guys had me worried, but Clowney was a no show last night.
kinda like the Minnesota defense, which gave up 37 points and almost 500 yards of total offense to the Seahawks
Couldn't do anything against a back up left tackle in the second half.
first of all, he was doubled the majority of the game. if your two eyes couldn't see that (and clearly they couldn't, probably because you weren't watching), they even made mention of it during the game. your big, bad running back had a whopping 29 yards on the ground last night. i'm sure Clowney's presence had nothing to do with that, right?
He didn't seem to be showing much effort on a lot of plays.
yeah, like that play when he ran down Dalvin Cook from behind on a screen pass and forced a fumble:
2nd & 10 at MIN 35
(0:22 - 2nd) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short left to D.Cook to 50 for 15 yards (J.Clowney, Q.Diggs). FUMBLES (J.Clowney), recovered by MIN-P.Elflein at 50.
and the play at the goal line when he stuffed Mattison for a loss:
2nd & Goal at SEA 2
(8:05 - 4th) (No Huddle) A.Mattison up the middle to SEA 3 for -1 yards (J.Clowney).
you really are a hoot. not only does your "analysis" suck, but on top of that you have the nerve to call out a defensive player on the opposing, winning team when your team's defense was a sieve all game long.
Several people told me (including you) Clowney was SO GREAT and I didn't know what I was talking about because I didn't watch him play, so I said I would watch him against the Vikings and see what he showed in a prime time important game.
Here's my review. He stunk. No sacks, one QB pressure, three tackles, one on a run that gained several yards and one when he was unblocked (I missed the third tackle, he forced a fumble?) and he played half the game against a back up. The Vikings passed 38 times. I noticed he QUIT on quite a few pass plays!
One thing I am positive about, YOU will never admit to being wrong!
I'll bet if he had a good game you would be all over THAT.
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You guys had me worried, but Clowney was a no show last night.
kinda like the Minnesota defense, which gave up 37 points and almost 500 yards of total offense to the Seahawks
Couldn't do anything against a back up left tackle in the second half.
first of all, he was doubled the majority of the game. if your two eyes couldn't see that (and clearly they couldn't, probably because you weren't watching), they even made mention of it during the game. your big, bad running back had a whopping 29 yards on the ground last night. i'm sure Clowney's presence had nothing to do with that, right?
He didn't seem to be showing much effort on a lot of plays.
yeah, like that play when he ran down Dalvin Cook from behind on a screen pass and forced a fumble:
2nd & 10 at MIN 35
(0:22 - 2nd) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short left to D.Cook to 50 for 15 yards (J.Clowney, Q.Diggs). FUMBLES (J.Clowney), recovered by MIN-P.Elflein at 50.
and the play at the goal line when he stuffed Mattison for a loss:
2nd & Goal at SEA 2
(8:05 - 4th) (No Huddle) A.Mattison up the middle to SEA 3 for -1 yards (J.Clowney).
you really are a hoot. not only does your "analysis" suck, but on top of that you have the nerve to call out a defensive player on the opposing, winning team when your team's defense was a sieve all game long.
only you, Banzai
You know less than nothing about football.
Not only was I watching, I had to get up at 4:30 AM and still watched every play. I was watching CLOWNey on almost every play. MEH.
Seahawks deserved to win.
Minnesota defense played very poorly in the 3rd quarter which has NOTHING to do with Clowney. The fact that Seattle won also had nothing to do with it. Our big bad running back missed the second half and waltzed in for a TD in the first half.
Clowney was NOT doubled often (why double a guy who quits on half the plays) and couldn't even take advantage of a back up tackle and 38 opportunities to sack the QB.
You are the same as the other guy, simply cannot admit when you are wrong.
I was fully prepared to give Clowney credit if he had a good game. He was unblocked on the goal line play, I sure hope he can make a tackle when nobody blocks him, he sure can't when a scrub is doing it. He did chase down Cook after a 15 yard gain, if he was so great, he would have made a play before the RB gained 15 yards.
54 offensive plays and 3 tackles (one of those he wasn't even blocked and the other was a 15 yard gain for the opponent) WOW he's great. The other defensive end is MUCH better.
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Banzai, you are arguably the worst poster this forum has to offer. i used to think you possessed a semblance of knowledge about sports, but this thread has proven otherwise. your depth is so shallow that you resort to making sweeping generalizations and bloviating until you're blue in the face. then when you're hit with numbers, facts, specific examples, and analysis from people who.........wait for it........ actually watch the games intently, you morph into a kindergartener who skipped his daily nap. it's like clockwork, and it's hilarious. your coveted input was so amusing today that it attracted the attention of two other members.......look up. it's like a bad mating call.
i'm sorry it requires a defensive player to recover 5 fumbles, pick off 10 passes and score 25 touchdowns before your pea-sized brain can compute what type of impact he has on a game. Clowney attracted a ton of attention last night. i know you don't actually watch the games, but had you turned the volume up loud enough you would have heard Joe Tessitore mention how frustrated he was getting because the Vikings were consistently sending help to the tackles in order to deal with him. but ya see, Joe, it's a numbers game on the line of scrimmage. when Minny doubled up on him, it freed up his teammates to make plays. and apparently they did, because your team's vaunted running game did next to nothing last night. the only way Minnesota moved the ball with any consistency last night was via the arm of the guy i told you months ago was considerably better than you gave him credit for. in other words, i was able to successfully evaluate your own quarterback better than you were. but i know nothing, right?
bottom line is it's fruitless to try and debate you, because you bring next to nothing to the table. i knew you'd hop on here, mouth off and say Clowney was a nonfactor last night. i know soaking up two blockers much of the night is foreign to you, so i was more than prepared to post specific examples such as when he ran Cook down and forced a fumble, because i could practically read "he made no plays and dogged it much of the night" before you ever typed it. you are so pathetically predictable.
i just scrolled up to revisit some of your genius and you even had the audacity to call Xavier Rhodes a good/great corner. this is not 2017, Joe. he is one of the worst cover corners in the league and last night he proved it yet again when he allowed an easy touchdown and then blamed Harrison Smith for not rolling over to help his worthless ass. he regularly gets burned, gets flagged, and teams now throw at him as opposed to away from him. so if you want to spout off about players who suck and do nothing, try focusing on one of your own as opposed to making a fool out of yourself when speaking about Clowney.
dude i know you are older than me, but i promise i've forgotten more football than you'll ever know
@Dave99B said: @DIMEMAN, let’s give him credit for at least watching him play. Baby steps, baby steps.
Loved seeing the Hawk backs trample the Vikings for 200+ yards. Bodes well as the weather turns bad. Now if we could just get Clowney going.
Dave
I think the seahawks can get to the superbowl ! If by some miracle the patriots get there this year the seahawks will win . I'm waiting for the seahawks bandwagon to drive by so I can hop on , the pats wagon has 2 flat tires the ride is very poor
@Dave99B said: @bronco2078 - I think the only way the Hawks go to the SB is if they end up the One Seed. I don’t see them going to New Orleans and winning.
Of course, they are undefeated on the road....hmmm...maybe I don’t want the One Seed after all. Will ponder.
Dave
It could be nasty in Seattle in Jan. as opposed to nice in N.O. under the dome. Something to think about.
Comments
Sounds like you are talking about Garrett.
16 solo tackles and 3 sacks for the year. He has scored 2 touchdowns this year.
Nice game against the 49ers, other than that?
MEH
he gets pumped for Primetime games or really bad coaching in this one game let him shine.
He was better in the game than the official stats indicate even. He was all over the backfield up in Jimmy G's grill the whole game but what did he have 6 hits on the QB ?
Its like the 49's staff not just ignored him but mailed him their playbook on Tuesday
JoeBanzai's parochial world, population 3 (dd agreed with his post and bronco is doubling down instead of refusing to admit he was wrong about Clowney)
if you convert everything he has done this season into sacks, he'd have about 15 at this juncture:
16 solos, 5 tackles for loss, 3 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 2 fumbles recovered (including a scoop and score two nights ago), and a pick six thru 10 weeks. is that truly MEH to you? please confirm so you can lose credibility in the eyes of everyone who reads this and provide a good chuckle at the same time.
"nice" game against the Niners? it was the best performance i've seen by a lineman i've seen in a long, long time. as i said up above, he absolutely wrecked the game. very LT-esque.
would love for the resident Hawks fan @Dave99B to chime in and give his honest assessment of Clowney's season thus far. i'm willing to go out on a very tenuous limb and say he will not describe it as MEH.
Apparently you have a problem with my posts.
OK, he had a GREAT game against the 49ers, he was probably a/the difference maker in that game. Looks like he did ok against the Falcons, other than that he hasn't done ANYTHING statistically.
For a guy who you seem to be ready to nominate for all time all sport GOAT, I see a very "hyped" athlete who doesn't sack the quarterback much OR make very many tackles.
4 solo tackles through his first 6 games. 1 sack through his first 7 games. He has ONE big game and you lose your mind. Get real.
Pro Footbal reference says he had 5 QB hits in the 49ers game. He had 4 in the Atlanta game and 3 in the other 8 games combined.
Ziggy Ansah and Jarran Reed have 2.5 sacks between them...very disappointing so far. In fact, I think Ansah may be done. Very little pressue on the QB from those guys, although their run D is decent. I'd pretty sure Ansah is playing injured. No excuses for Reed.
As a result, Clowney gets double teamed regularly. He's shown good effort all year. Forget the box score. Watch a Hawks game a focus on him. He's disruptive as hell. He's obviously auditioning for a huge contract next year, and will get it. Love the guy, and his effort. Just not sure he'll be here next year, as the Hawks have a so much $$$ tied up in Russell, but who knows. No way we go 8-2 without Clowney. He's a Beast.
Dave
i have no problem with you personally, and i certainly don't have a problem with you opining. but when the content of your blathering causes a subconjunctival hemorrhage, rest assured i'm going to say something because i don't like blood spots on the white of my eyes.
since you are making love to solo tackles and sacks, how about we discuss plays that are worth exceedingly more to a team?
plays that you are, not surprisingly, conveniently glossing over? moreover, how about we lower this to a first-grade level and convert said plays into sacks so you can have a lucid understanding of what kind of player Clowney is and what type of season he is actually having?
this should be fun.
tell me Joe, how many sacks is a forced fumble that is recovered by the defense worth? Clowney has 3 of those.
how about fumbles personally recovered? Clowney has two of those.
how about interceptions? Clowney has one of those.
how about touchdowns? you know, that thing where a player adds points to his team's total? Odell Beckham has one. Jadeveon Clowney, who plays defense, has two. help me out here, is a touchdown worth more than a sack?
aside from that "minutiae," if you actually watched the games from beginning to end, you'd see what type of impact Clowney has beyond actual numbers. case in point: two nights ago the Niners called a play-action pass that had perfection written all over it. everyone went left, Jimmy G faked a handoff to Tevin Coleman and then rolled right, and there he was -- a WR with nothing but green turf ahead of him. except there was one slight problem. this dude named Jadeveon Clowney didn't bite. not only did he not bite, but he then used his sublime vertical to force a throw that sailed over the head of the wide receiver. had he not been there, it would have -- at the very least -- been a 30-40 yard pass play. who knows, maybe he disrupted a trip to the house. when you can find that exact play in the stats sheet, come find me and i'll be willing to forgive you for being such a myopic contributor to this here thread.
edit: as i type this, DaveB99 -- a guy who has watched more of JC than even i have -- interpolated his wisdom. thanks, Dave.....couldn't agree more. but i'm sure JoeB and his two sycophants will look at solos and sacks and tell you how wrong you are.
i think it's time for me to channel my inner stevek..........man there are some people in here who don't know chit about football
Clowney is a beast and a very disruptive player that the QB had better account for on all plays. Anyone who does not see this is either not paying attention or doesn't like him for some personnel reason. I would LOVE to see a STAR on his helmet!
it seemed to me like he had double digit QB hits , I count it as a hit when you pick an O-line guy off his feet and beat him over the QB's head. the NFL doesn't log that I guess .
I don't know how you figured that out, WOW HE IS A GOD!
Sorry you have a headache.
That's good!
Fine, he was at the right place at the right time, that's good.
Nice, but I'm not going to get too excited about 1 interception every 10 games. Returning it for a TD was very good.
Yes, I saw he had two touchdowns, that's nice! Who cares about Odell Beckham, we're discussing a defensive player. Beckham appears to be having his worst season, what's your point?
So, he was where he was supposed to be, that's good. Not getting fooled on a play action pass WOW.
>
when you can find that exact play in the stats sheet, come find me and i'll be willing to forgive you for being such a myopic contributor to this here thread.
Gee, thanks for the education. Sacks and tackles are worthless, good to know! I also know 1.6 tackles and 1/3 of a sack per game are not great numbers, and that's a FACT. You go on about him like he's the greatest defensive player in the history of Pro Football.
You are certainly right about that!
We will have a perfect opportunity to see how good he is on December 2nd Monday Night Football. This is the kind of game he actually shows up for, right?
I'll let you know what I think in a couple of weeks.
you mean you're actually going to watch a game and break a player down with your own two eyes, as opposed to spewing ESPN's highlighted row of stats in determining how dominant or how "meh" a player is?
it's a good start for you
edit: and by the way, no one on your entire defense has a touchdown this season. so if you didn't like my Beckham comparison, how about Clowney 2, the entire Vikings defense 0? what type of infantile reply will you come up with next if making a game-changing, scoreboard-rattling play like that is so easy, yet not a single player on the Minny D has been able to make one thru 10 weeks?
your posts are rather humorous when you get cornered and have no place to go
Unlike some posters, I do not live and die for sports. I watch the Vikings almost every week, but if there's a family function, I put that as a priority. I am not going to take the time to watch Clowney or any other player, I might watch a playoff game or two and usually the Super Bowl. But I won't have a nervous breakdown if I don't.
I have been hearing they Clowney hype for a long time now and I am sure he is a wonderful athlete and I guess he is a "beast" and very "disruptive". It might be nice if he tackled a guy now and then while he's out there.
Yes, he has scored a couple of TDs this year and the Vikings defense has not. He has scored 4 TDs in 5 years. That's very nice.
I never said he was a bum, I simply pointed out that he didn't make a lot of tackles and you went nuts. Most ELITE linebackers make more than 1 1/2 tackles a game.
You FINALLY pointed out a couple of things he does well on the football field after a bunch of posts ridiculing me for having an opinion that differs from yours.
Cornered, not really.
@JoeBanzai - I am not going to take the time to watch Clowney or any other player
Hmmmm….this may be the root of the problem.
Maybe not watching players impacts your analysis of their performance on the field? It's a longshot, but I thought I'd ask
Dave
Of course.
I never saw Dick Butkus play either (or was too young to remember it) but I think he was a great defender. There's no record of the number of tackles back then, but he intercepted a lot of passes and grabbed a LOT of fumbles in his day, he only scored one TD in his entire career and that was in his last year.
I did see Alan Page play and (like you Clowney guys) think he was one of the very best to ever play the game.
I'll say it again, I never said he was a bad football player, all I did was point out that he didn't spend a lot of time actually tackling the guy with the ball. This is indisputable.
I also said he might be like Anthony Barr of the Vikings, Barr is all-pro and doesn't seem (to me) to do much on the field. Big, strong and fast though. He does make more tackles than Clowney, but most players do. He doesn't make the "big plays" that Clowney occasionally does though.
Possibly if some of you Clowney lovers would give examples of his greatness (galaxy finally tossed in a couple) instead of calling me an idiot, you might give me reason to doubt the numbers.
I still don't see him as a top tier defender. He needs to grab a few ballcarriers and tackle them instead of just "disruptive forcing" them.
I'll see him in a couple of weeks and I might have a different opinion then.
This is one of many elements that informs my opinion that identifying a GOAT in football is impossible. Will the GOAT cornerback intercept the most passes? He might as a rookie, but once everyone sees how great he is, he won't intercept that many again, because QBs will stop throwing in his direction. The interception leader could very well end up being the other cornerback on the same team. If you watch every game this team plays, you might see this. But if you look at stats of players you never saw play, you won't see this. You'll think the other CB was better than the GOAT. How valuable was it to the Vikings to have Alan Page not only tackling the runners that did come his way, but also forcing the other team to change its offense so they weren't running at Page as often? No way to know, of course, but surely there was value there.
Disentangling the ability of one corner from the other on the same team is child's play compared to disentangling the ability of a QB from the abilities of the other ten players on the field with him, and then comparing that QB's ability to the ability of another QB on a different team, after disentangling that QB's ability from the abilities of the other ten players on the field with him. The QB comparison is, in fact, impossible, even when comparing two QBs in the same division in the same year. Comparing a QB from one era to the QB from another era is laughably impossible, which is why so many people "count rings" or other such nonsense. I take "Tom Brady was better than Johnny Unitas" as seriously as I would take a blind man's declaration of the best binoculars.
I take "Tom Brady was better than Johnny Unitas" as seriously as I would take a blind man's declaration of the best binoculars.
So its impossibly difficult so unitas is better?
No one cares about these old fossils that were great in 1922
I check every channel on Sunday and none of them show me Unitas playing.
These are just dumb jocks . They never do anything important enough to remember decades later.
Did Johnny Unitas create the polio vaccine? No . Invent the light bulb ? No . Guess I don't care about him.
I care about tom brady because I am a pats fan, when he retires (soon) I won't care anymore. I won't be buying any TB- 12 beet and watercress smoothies or 12 jerseys , I may stop watching if the team sucks , who cares?
You stat dweebs always trying to pretend sports actually matter
It doesn't and it never will
i'm supposed to be mad at you in this thread...........stop making me giggle like a teenaged girl
I dont know why , I would let him on my team I just wouldnt overpay him.
I wouldn't pay jj watt either, sure he is great but can he play a half season at least?
was kidding. to your point earlier, i don't know why they didn't give those poor tackles some help either. at least stick a TE on his side and chip him for crying out loud. anything at all to slow him down even a millisecond. only thing i saw all game long was a beeline to Jimmy G and a mauling along the way there
True, the Vikings have a good/great corner in Xaviar Rhodes, the opposing teams just don't throw to his side of the field.
This was a fabulous rant. I have no idea how it relates to what I said, or even what it means, but it was very entertaining.
thats what I'm here for Grampy !
You guys had me worried, but Clowney was a no show last night.
Couldn't do anything against a back up left tackle in the second half. He didn't seem to be showing much effort on a lot of plays. I did see him make a tackle when no one blocked him and one where he pursued the running back downfield after a nice gain.
Meh.
Title of thread should be changed to "Seattle LOSES Jadeveon Clowney Sweepstakes"!
Here we go again.
kinda like the Minnesota defense, which gave up 37 points and almost 500 yards of total offense to the Seahawks
first of all, he was doubled the majority of the game. if your two eyes couldn't see that (and clearly they couldn't, probably because you weren't watching), they even made mention of it during the game. your big, bad running back had a whopping 29 yards on the ground last night. i'm sure Clowney's presence had nothing to do with that, right?
yeah, like that play when he ran down Dalvin Cook from behind on a screen pass and forced a fumble:
2nd & 10 at MIN 35
(0:22 - 2nd) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short left to D.Cook to 50 for 15 yards (J.Clowney, Q.Diggs). FUMBLES (J.Clowney), recovered by MIN-P.Elflein at 50.
and the play at the goal line when he stuffed Mattison for a loss:
2nd & Goal at SEA 2
(8:05 - 4th) (No Huddle) A.Mattison up the middle to SEA 3 for -1 yards (J.Clowney).
you really are a hoot. not only does your "analysis" suck, but on top of that you have the nerve to call out a defensive player on the opposing, winning team when your team's defense was a sieve all game long.
only you, Banzai
Several people told me (including you) Clowney was SO GREAT and I didn't know what I was talking about because I didn't watch him play, so I said I would watch him against the Vikings and see what he showed in a prime time important game.
Here's my review. He stunk. No sacks, one QB pressure, three tackles, one on a run that gained several yards and one when he was unblocked (I missed the third tackle, he forced a fumble?) and he played half the game against a back up. The Vikings passed 38 times. I noticed he QUIT on quite a few pass plays!
One thing I am positive about, YOU will never admit to being wrong!
I'll bet if he had a good game you would be all over THAT.
You know less than nothing about football.
Not only was I watching, I had to get up at 4:30 AM and still watched every play. I was watching CLOWNey on almost every play. MEH.
Seahawks deserved to win.
Minnesota defense played very poorly in the 3rd quarter which has NOTHING to do with Clowney. The fact that Seattle won also had nothing to do with it. Our big bad running back missed the second half and waltzed in for a TD in the first half.
Clowney was NOT doubled often (why double a guy who quits on half the plays) and couldn't even take advantage of a back up tackle and 38 opportunities to sack the QB.
You are the same as the other guy, simply cannot admit when you are wrong.
I was fully prepared to give Clowney credit if he had a good game. He was unblocked on the goal line play, I sure hope he can make a tackle when nobody blocks him, he sure can't when a scrub is doing it. He did chase down Cook after a 15 yard gain, if he was so great, he would have made a play before the RB gained 15 yards.
54 offensive plays and 3 tackles (one of those he wasn't even blocked and the other was a 15 yard gain for the opponent) WOW he's great. The other defensive end is MUCH better.
@DIMEMAN, let’s give him credit for at least watching him play. Baby steps, baby steps.
Loved seeing the Hawk backs trample the Vikings for 200+ yards. Bodes well as the weather turns bad. Now if we could just get Clowney going.
Dave
He even counted all the plays and tackles …….. I'm impressed.
Banzai, you are arguably the worst poster this forum has to offer. i used to think you possessed a semblance of knowledge about sports, but this thread has proven otherwise. your depth is so shallow that you resort to making sweeping generalizations and bloviating until you're blue in the face. then when you're hit with numbers, facts, specific examples, and analysis from people who.........wait for it........ actually watch the games intently, you morph into a kindergartener who skipped his daily nap. it's like clockwork, and it's hilarious. your coveted input was so amusing today that it attracted the attention of two other members.......look up. it's like a bad mating call.
i'm sorry it requires a defensive player to recover 5 fumbles, pick off 10 passes and score 25 touchdowns before your pea-sized brain can compute what type of impact he has on a game. Clowney attracted a ton of attention last night. i know you don't actually watch the games, but had you turned the volume up loud enough you would have heard Joe Tessitore mention how frustrated he was getting because the Vikings were consistently sending help to the tackles in order to deal with him. but ya see, Joe, it's a numbers game on the line of scrimmage. when Minny doubled up on him, it freed up his teammates to make plays. and apparently they did, because your team's vaunted running game did next to nothing last night. the only way Minnesota moved the ball with any consistency last night was via the arm of the guy i told you months ago was considerably better than you gave him credit for. in other words, i was able to successfully evaluate your own quarterback better than you were. but i know nothing, right?
bottom line is it's fruitless to try and debate you, because you bring next to nothing to the table. i knew you'd hop on here, mouth off and say Clowney was a nonfactor last night. i know soaking up two blockers much of the night is foreign to you, so i was more than prepared to post specific examples such as when he ran Cook down and forced a fumble, because i could practically read "he made no plays and dogged it much of the night" before you ever typed it. you are so pathetically predictable.
i just scrolled up to revisit some of your genius and you even had the audacity to call Xavier Rhodes a good/great corner.
this is not 2017, Joe. he is one of the worst cover corners in the league and last night he proved it yet again when he allowed an easy touchdown and then blamed Harrison Smith for not rolling over to help his worthless ass. he regularly gets burned, gets flagged, and teams now throw at him as opposed to away from him. so if you want to spout off about players who suck and do nothing, try focusing on one of your own as opposed to making a fool out of yourself when speaking about Clowney.
dude i know you are older than me, but i promise i've forgotten more football than you'll ever know
Nice thread @galaxy27 . Tell your Bears to take it easy on my Cowboys Thursday. We need a win.
Two idiots.
I think the seahawks can get to the superbowl ! If by some miracle the patriots get there this year the seahawks will win . I'm waiting for the seahawks bandwagon to drive by so I can hop on , the pats wagon has 2 flat tires the ride is very poor
@bronco2078 - I think the only way the Hawks go to the SB is if they end up the One Seed. I don’t see them going to New Orleans and winning.
Of course, they are undefeated on the road....hmmm...maybe I don’t want the One Seed after all. Will ponder.
Dave
It could be nasty in Seattle in Jan. as opposed to nice in N.O. under the dome.
Something to think about. 