@jmlanzaf said:
Yes, yes, I know it's U.S. Mint products and they are widgets or (worse!) dreck!
BUT that could suggest a huge decrease in overall interest in coins. Consider that in 1995, a LOT of Mint products were distributed by coin dealers as the Mint was not yet doing internet sales directly. Today, coin dealers do very little with most proof and mint sets because they don't get enough of a discount from the Mint to be able to compete with the MInt's direct marketing.
This is what happened to stamps: giant decrease in philatelic sales at USPS, huge decrease in number of subscribers to FDC services etc., huge decrease in APS membership.
@jmlanzaf said:
Yes, yes, I know it's U.S. Mint products and they are widgets or (worse!) dreck!
BUT that could suggest a huge decrease in overall interest in coins. Consider that in 1995, a LOT of Mint products were distributed by coin dealers as the Mint was not yet doing internet sales directly. Today, coin dealers do very little with most proof and mint sets because they don't get enough of a discount from the Mint to be able to compete with the MInt's direct marketing.
This is what happened to stamps: giant decrease in philatelic sales at USPS, huge decrease in number of subscribers to FDC services etc., huge decrease in APS membership.
Are you an alt for 291fifth?
Ridiculous. Everyone knows who I am> @blitzdude said:
Only worry of you buy coins with hopes of one day profiting from the purchase. If collecting just for fun overpay away. lol
There's truth in this, but I think people should be aware that's what they are doing, especially when they advise other people to "invest" in coins.
The amount of products that they put out and the markups they put on items I am sure drives people away. If they correct either of these two things, I'm sure it would help to turn things around.
Look, to me this is a multi-level question in the OP:
First, on a knee-jerk gut level this would not bother me
Second, on a personal level of a long time collector who used to dutifully but the mint and proof sets each year, the SAE in proof, etc. - well, now I don't buy any of those although confess to buying some of the gimmick issues. The old me would have gotten the gold liberty just issued. The new one? Well, I got the silver and moved on.
Third, these total sales as is reflected by the apparent decrease customer base ARE correlated. So people had multiple accounts before and do now. Big deal, that is likely a somewhat fixed variable.
So, decreased sales is reflected in the number of customers or accounts - so this is a valid interpretation of the observation.
Fourth, even though this may not affect many on this board (including me), it is likely a reflection of the decline of the coin/numimatic base of coin collecting today.
This board in many ways has wrestled with the "inverted pyramid" demographic in coins. Despite all the wonderful anecdotes of witnessed kids at coin shows and the drivel (ok that is editorial on my part) about the face of collecting and ways of collecting changing, the numbers appear to show otherwise. Kids don't care despite our best efforts, even if there are thankfully the notable exceptions here or there. The trend is otherwise.
So, yes IMO it does matter and is important to the hobby as a benchmark and reflective of changes in the overall complexion of the base and market.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
It's totally on them. They saturated their own market with crap. We all remember how popular the bi-centennial issues were, followed by the wild popularity of the state quarters over 20 years later..... That time gap is exactly what made them special and desirable to collect. Here we are 10 years later and the Mint is still trying to continuously ride that wave. it's just not going to work and there's no end in sight. They need to give it a rest.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
@7Jaguars said:
Look, to me this is a multi-level question in the OP:
First, on a knee-jerk gut level this would not bother me
Second, on a personal level of a long time collector who used to dutifully but the mint and proof sets each year, the SAE in proof, etc. - well, now I don't buy any of those although confess to buying some of the gimmick issues. The old me would have gotten the gold liberty just issued. The new one? Well, I got the silver and moved on.
Third, these total sales as is reflected by the apparent decrease customer base ARE correlated. So people had multiple accounts before and do now. Big deal, that is likely a somewhat fixed variable.
So, decreased sales is reflected in the number of customers or accounts - so this is a valid interpretation of the observation.
Fourth, even though this may not affect many on this board (including me), it is likely a reflection of the decline of the coin/numimatic base of coin collecting today.
This board in many ways has wrestled with the "inverted pyramid" demographic in coins. Despite all the wonderful anecdotes of witnessed kids at coin shows and the drivel (ok that is editorial on my part) about the face of collecting and ways of collecting changing, the numbers appear to show otherwise. Kids don't care despite our best efforts, even if there are thankfully the notable exceptions here or there. The trend is otherwise.
So, yes IMO it does matter and is important to the hobby as a benchmark and reflective of changes in the overall complexion of the base and market.
@ms70 said:
It's totally on them. They saturated their own market with crap. We all remember how popular the bi-centennial issues were, followed by the wild popularity of the state quarters over 20 years later..... That time gap is exactly what made them special and desirable to collect. Here we are 10 years later and the Mint is still trying to continuously ride that wave. it's just not going to work and there's no end in sight. They need to give it a rest.
My concern is not for the Mint itself but whether it says anything about the coin market in general.
@ms70 said:
It's totally on them. They saturated their own market with crap. We all remember how popular the bi-centennial issues were, followed by the wild popularity of the state quarters over 20 years later..... That time gap is exactly what made them special and desirable to collect. Here we are 10 years later and the Mint is still trying to continuously ride that wave. it's just not going to work and there's no end in sight. They need to give it a rest.
My concern is not for the Mint itself but whether it says anything about the coin market in general.
Understood, what I'm saying about the market is that it's getting killed because the offerings are simply loads of boring products. I don't believe it's more complicated than that. New collectors as well as existing collectors are like anyone else- they want something special, not more of the same.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
My mother (RIP mom)once told me that greed was the problem with money. That isn't bound to change. The golden goose is fiat money now, and even that's overpriced ( 40% over face value, out of the mint). The law of physics is in motion.
@ms70 said:
On another thought, maybe the mint should just stop selling everything except the single best seller which I assume is bullion.
The Mint has little control over what they sell. They get mandates from Congress and try to work within that.
I would also suggest that maybe it would be better if they sold MORE THINGS. The idea is to entice people to collect, not to feed valuable coins to the already collecting.
The Mint should be issuing a Disney or Superhero medal AT LEAST once per year. It should be copper nickel or similar base metal alloy and priced at $10 or less.
The Mint should be issuing MULTIPLE commemorative coins in small mintages for all kinds of organizations and interests. Again, base metal, low cost, maybe common reverse to keep costs down.
The Mint should have a continuous series of Animal medals, maybe 3 to 5 per year every year. Again, base metal, low cost.
Every now and then they can throw in a silver or gold version. But the goal should be to get as many people as possible buying "coin-like thingys" that appeal to them.
How disheartening is it to buy something from the mint and then soon after see the value drop to less than what they paid, in some cases significantly less. Many people have noticed this trend and it has left a bad taste in their mouths. The average collector is going to stop buying and move on to something else. The word gets around too because people do talk.
Just as an example, a guy brings in nearly a complete set of first spouse gold to a shop a couple days ago. The dealer pays a couple percent back of melt for them. The bad part is the guy got them from the mint and in some cases paid $1000 for some of them. The dealer didn't rip the guy, the first spouse gold coins just are not selling for much of a premium over spot.
@ms70 said:
On another thought, maybe the mint should just stop selling everything except the single best seller which I assume is bullion.
The Mint has little control over what they sell. They get mandates from Congress and try to work within that.
I would also suggest that maybe it would be better if they sold MORE THINGS. The idea is to entice people to collect, not to feed valuable coins to the already collecting.
The Mint should be issuing a Disney or Superhero medal AT LEAST once per year. It should be copper nickel or similar base metal alloy and priced at $10 or less.
The Mint should be issuing MULTIPLE commemorative coins in small mintages for all kinds of organizations and interests. Again, base metal, low cost, maybe common reverse to keep costs down.
The Mint should have a continuous series of Animal medals, maybe 3 to 5 per year every year. Again, base metal, low cost.
Every now and then they can throw in a silver or gold version. But the goal should be to get as many people as possible buying "coin-like thingys" that appeal to them.
That's marketing to narrow interests, not collectors, especially Disney and superhero stuff. Those are things you get in the gift shops.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Much of the drop may be the transient masses that were enticed by the state quarter craze, not hardcore, longtime collectors.
Their impact was overestimated in the growth phase because few became serious collectors and their exit won't matter much, either, at least for the more serious collector material.
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
Comments
Only worry of you buy coins with hopes of one day profiting from the purchase. If collecting just for fun overpay away. lol
Ridiculous. Everyone knows who I am
Ridiculous. Everyone knows who I am> @blitzdude said:
There's truth in this, but I think people should be aware that's what they are doing, especially when they advise other people to "invest" in coins.
No.
The mint's products have been sucking money out of the "collector" market for years.
The amount of products that they put out and the markups they put on items I am sure drives people away. If they correct either of these two things, I'm sure it would help to turn things around.
Look, to me this is a multi-level question in the OP:
First, on a knee-jerk gut level this would not bother me
Second, on a personal level of a long time collector who used to dutifully but the mint and proof sets each year, the SAE in proof, etc. - well, now I don't buy any of those although confess to buying some of the gimmick issues. The old me would have gotten the gold liberty just issued. The new one? Well, I got the silver and moved on.
Third, these total sales as is reflected by the apparent decrease customer base ARE correlated. So people had multiple accounts before and do now. Big deal, that is likely a somewhat fixed variable.
So, decreased sales is reflected in the number of customers or accounts - so this is a valid interpretation of the observation.
Fourth, even though this may not affect many on this board (including me), it is likely a reflection of the decline of the coin/numimatic base of coin collecting today.
This board in many ways has wrestled with the "inverted pyramid" demographic in coins. Despite all the wonderful anecdotes of witnessed kids at coin shows and the drivel (ok that is editorial on my part) about the face of collecting and ways of collecting changing, the numbers appear to show otherwise. Kids don't care despite our best efforts, even if there are thankfully the notable exceptions here or there. The trend is otherwise.
So, yes IMO it does matter and is important to the hobby as a benchmark and reflective of changes in the overall complexion of the base and market.
Well, just Love coins, period.
I have not purchased from them in ages - too many hits in aftermarket.
It's totally on them. They saturated their own market with crap. We all remember how popular the bi-centennial issues were, followed by the wild popularity of the state quarters over 20 years later..... That time gap is exactly what made them special and desirable to collect. Here we are 10 years later and the Mint is still trying to continuously ride that wave. it's just not going to work and there's no end in sight. They need to give it a rest.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Well said
My concern is not for the Mint itself but whether it says anything about the coin market in general.
Understood, what I'm saying about the market is that it's getting killed because the offerings are simply loads of boring products. I don't believe it's more complicated than that. New collectors as well as existing collectors are like anyone else- they want something special, not more of the same.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
On another thought, maybe the mint should just stop selling everything except the single best seller which I assume is bullion.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Something to think about and do in the future.
Anytime you read or hear “US Mint” or “Mint” replace it with “US Congress” or “Congress.”
Makes for “enlightening” reading.
My mother (RIP mom)once told me that greed was the problem with money. That isn't bound to change. The golden goose is fiat money now, and even that's overpriced ( 40% over face value, out of the mint). The law of physics is in motion.
The Mint has little control over what they sell. They get mandates from Congress and try to work within that.
I would also suggest that maybe it would be better if they sold MORE THINGS. The idea is to entice people to collect, not to feed valuable coins to the already collecting.
The Mint should be issuing a Disney or Superhero medal AT LEAST once per year. It should be copper nickel or similar base metal alloy and priced at $10 or less.
The Mint should be issuing MULTIPLE commemorative coins in small mintages for all kinds of organizations and interests. Again, base metal, low cost, maybe common reverse to keep costs down.
The Mint should have a continuous series of Animal medals, maybe 3 to 5 per year every year. Again, base metal, low cost.
Every now and then they can throw in a silver or gold version. But the goal should be to get as many people as possible buying "coin-like thingys" that appeal to them.
How disheartening is it to buy something from the mint and then soon after see the value drop to less than what they paid, in some cases significantly less. Many people have noticed this trend and it has left a bad taste in their mouths. The average collector is going to stop buying and move on to something else. The word gets around too because people do talk.
Just as an example, a guy brings in nearly a complete set of first spouse gold to a shop a couple days ago. The dealer pays a couple percent back of melt for them. The bad part is the guy got them from the mint and in some cases paid $1000 for some of them. The dealer didn't rip the guy, the first spouse gold coins just are not selling for much of a premium over spot.
That's marketing to narrow interests, not collectors, especially Disney and superhero stuff. Those are things you get in the gift shops.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Much of the drop may be the transient masses that were enticed by the state quarter craze, not hardcore, longtime collectors.
Their impact was overestimated in the growth phase because few became serious collectors and their exit won't matter much, either, at least for the more serious collector material.
I guess people are figuring out that if they wait a couple of years they can get most of the coins for half (or less) of issue price.