PWCC at The National
60sfan
Posts: 311 ✭✭✭
Was there a lot of activity at PWCC's booth?
1
60sfan
Posts: 311 ✭✭✭
Comments
No
Does the FBI count?
Their ebay auctions seems to be holding up based on the items I follow. Has anyone seen any negative impact on their sales?
Yes. I'm no longer bidding, so that impacts their sales (since I won a fair amount of cards from them over the years).
Me not bidding doesn't seem to have had an impact, seems cards are selling just as strong as before.
I was planning to send some unopened to them. I've been holding off since all of the news broke. I'm not sure there are any "clean" auction services out there.
I just got an email (my first ever) from them looking for consignments for an upcoming auction. Do you guys have any idea how bottom feeding someone has to be in order to be asking ME for consignments? It's the equivalent of rummaging through a dumpster at 3am behind a 7-11.
Arthur
I’m a hockey buyer that will never buy or consign with them again.
I will never bid or buy from them again. If I were forced to sell anything I would not consign with them. I would have to think that there is some impact on cards as there are less overall bidders (have read similar comments from others).
I cannot understand how anybody who follows message boards would be their customer on either side (buyer or consignor) based on the evidence on Blowout.
However, even if I were a person that decided to continue doing business with them - I would not consign at least until the FBI investigation is over. What if something big pops that actually does scare people off between the time you consign and the next auction??
Unfortunately it only takes two interested people to get a nice price in any auction - and at least for now there seems to be enough customers to make that happen.
The only thing we can do as collectors is to stop doing business with shady outfits.
Depends what you are looking for in said dumpster. Don't sell your dumpster short brother!!
The Cowboys items I track were down 10% in the July PWCC auction vs recent sales. I won't buy from or consign with them. This months auction contains a lot fewer football items than 6 months or a year ago. I definitely think this mess - and their complicity in it - is having an impact. And it should.
The Doomsday Collection
Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor | All-Time Dallas Cowboys | Bob Lilly Master | Pro Football HOF Dallas Cowboys
The items I was looking at were mostly modern basketball and football. The prices were consistent with their past auctions, a little higher than the next ebay sale.
Last auction sales totaled ~$4.6 million compared to previous auction sales of $6.8 million. Also...the number of lots in current auction are ~100 lots less than previous auction.
Will be interesting to see how super high grade vintage holds up. Brent is on record saying it is 15- 30 guys driving this space. If as few as 5 guys bow out that has to have an impact. I gotta believe a solid guy like UFFDAH backing off will hurt prices. Thats how niche the truly high end is, we are talking about 2-3 guys wanting a card driving it 30-50% higher.
At least you got an email.
It does seem like the cards PWCC has up for auction are selling pretty good. I think if they have the cards people want, then people will continue to buy from them.
Can someone give me a 3 sentence or less summary of what all the stink is about PWCC?
I mostly do coins.....but occasionally I’ve been known to dabble in the cardboard arts on eBay .....
That wasn't my experience the last two auctions. They had cards I would have bid on had they been for sale from anyone else. Friends with 1948 Leaf cards purchased from PWCC going back years are in a real pickle right now trying to get them reviewed and / or refunded. Why take the risk?
The Doomsday Collection
Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor | All-Time Dallas Cowboys | Bob Lilly Master | Pro Football HOF Dallas Cowboys
You’d have to be nuts to buy 48 Leaf from PWCC these days. Those cards and other sets like look and see, 50s parkies were beat on
They don't seem to be hurting if you look at their auctions on Ebay.
Based on what? What cards are you following and how are they doing? Total volume good? Key cards hitting new highs?
I’ve seen you say this a number of times, please share what you know
As far as evidence goes, just go to Ebay, and look at their auctions. People are going to go after the cards they want no matter if Satan himself is selling them. People want what they want.
I edited my post.
Yes they have a lot of auctions, of course. But how are they they doing comparatively? There was no scenario where they ran dry on cards. So saying they are doing well because they have lots of auctions misses the point, big time.
Remember, they are positioned as an investment house. So the key is, are their cards still breaking previous records. Thats the house they built and time will tell if they can knock big individual card numbers out. Thats all that matters, will the next Clemente 8 beat the previous one.
I don't trust their sales prices.
Not saying it isn't selling. Some of that stuff will always bring money. There's value there.
I'm a hockey guy. No more PWCC for me. Never, ever, ever again.
I dislike PWCC, and I think they should pay for what they've done in the hobby, and I really hope they do. I understand your points. Yes, only time will tell. Hard time.
Now, if everyone will excuse me, I better be getting to bed. If I don't get my 8 hours, I can't function like a proper dragon. I love you all, and I'll see you tomorrow.
-doubledragon
I can't see it being good for Brent once his inmates in the Fed Pen find out that he had the same attorney as El Chapo but for "baseball card fraud". He just keeps on making a bad situation worse.
I will not consign to them again. And I've done a fair amount of consigning and buying from them. So now what? Probstein??? Thanks a lot Brent
What about heritage? They seem fairly reputable? Also, Greg Morris is really starting to auction A LOT of graded cards too; and people are paying a premium. I think more people are turning to him as an alternative.
@NYYanksFan7 - I've deleted your post. Disagreements are fine. Name calling/trashing other forum members is not. Please do not do it again. - Todd Tobias
I'll take that as a compliment. As far as PWCC is concerned, it's common sense that people are going to go where the best cards are regardless of this scandal. Just look on Ebay. People are still fighting like animals to get the cards they want. If charges are brought against Brent, then that will change probably, but people go where the best cards are available.
Unless of course their confidence in the legitimacy of the cards and/or the auction process has been undermined by this scandal. Or do you feel that’s not a factor?
Evidently it's not. The proof is in the pudding. Just look on Ebay at their auctions. They seem to be doing ok.
That’s just your anecdotal observation. With as many high end auctions as they run, a careful analysis would be necessary to draw any valid conclusions. I don’t think anyone expected four figure cards to suddenly sell for ten bucks.
Only time will tell. You could be right, I'm just going by what I see on Ebay.
Hopefully the feds will discover the shill bidding.
just to be the devils advocate, under the current legal pressure, wouldn’t PWCC be operating as clean as possible for now? I don’t think Brent is as stupid as Mastros co-conspirators that couldn’t keep their hands out of the cookie jar.
As for another service, for standard stuff like single PSA graded cards, Probstein is OK. I got burned once for a listing error on a high end box, so I won’t use him to sell any more boxes.
Just wondering---Is EBAY going to just open their books for the Feds?? After all, I look at auctions with 90 bid retractions and Ebay does nothing. We know by doing nothing what they are encouraging. There are a lot of people/companies in the wrong here. I just wonder how far the Feds will go. Consignors who send 500 grand worth of cards to PWCC should be worried also if Uncle Sam did not get his.....and if they look at all the records you can bet Uncle Sam will get his. Lots going on. Very concerning to say the least.
They’re running an (allegedly) altered sgc 6 t206 Mathewson portrait right now.
Can't do it in 3 sentences or less.
There has been evidence (proof?) of "shill" bidding in the past. They get unusually high prices for their items.
They put stickers on some of the cards they list, pointing out that the card is "high end" for the grade.
One of their consignors (Moser?) is (allegedly) altering cards, apparently well enough to pass TPG grading.
The accusations go from them "looking the other way" to they were actually involved in the purchase of, altering of and bidding on/advising bidders on items in their auctions. Very few here seem willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Best I could do.
Unless he loses your item/s.
Happened to me, happened to others. He does nothing to compensate you.
Yeah I was trying to be nice to Rick, but no I won’t be using him either.
Why not sell items yourself? Maybe on the BST boards if you don't want to sell on Ebay?
Just a thought.
Good question. Most items under $1000 I do sell myself. Anything over $1000 I Iike using a service like PWCC to get better exposure and to avoid dealing with knuckleheads or scams on ebay. I listed high end items on ebay or on various BST board and they never move. I send them to PWCC and they sold for more than I was asking (including the fees). I can't explain it, I have 5000 feedback with 0 negs.
Probstein is fine to buy from, I’ve never had an issue there. I consigned a partial PSA 10 set to him about 6 months ago and he “lost” my box with the cards in it that I sent. It took him about 4 months to find it before the cards were listed. In that 4 months, he did return emails and the communication was ok saying that he was actively looking for the cards. They did end up turning up and the auctions ran, but won’t be consigning again with him. He’s unorganized in that regard. Probably a little off topic, but I don’t feel Probstein is a safe alternative to consign to based on the issues with PWCC. Just one collectors opinion.
Betsy has her heart set on a Poodle.