2019 Hockey HOF Class & AS Games
shagrotn77
Posts: 5,583 ✭✭✭✭
Chew on this one for a minute:
The three former NHL players who made the HOF this year (Carbonneau, Zubov and Nedomansky) played a combined 41 seasons and totaled two All-Star appearances between them. Two - including none for Carbonneau in his 19 years in the league. What...the...actual...?
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
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I agree
Nedomansky is a total head scratcher. No individual awards with low production. 2 good years.
Zubov was a solid player and was in 3 AS games. Not the best selection as I had others much higher on my list.
Carbonneau for a center over 19 years has a very mediocre 0.5 points/game in a higher scoring era. Defense was his thing. He has 3 Selke awards. This might also get Bergeron in as well. Nothing more. No AS games. He is a horrible selection.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Nedomansky has a distinguished international career, which counts—it’s not just the NHL hall of fame, but all of hockey.
Nedomansky would be more appropriately inducted as a builder and deservedly so.
The other two I had never even considered.
Carbonneau was a Bob Gainey type player; however, he was far far away from being Gainey. Gainey is in the Hall where he belongs, but not every Selke winner deserves to join him there. Guys like Datsyuk and Bergeron will get in for a number of deserving reasons, not just Selke wins. Cabonneau was one-dimensional and shouldn't be in IMO.
There are going to likely be some Baines comparisons with this selection. There are plenty of players who deserve to be in more than he does, both NHL and Euro (Boris Mikhailov).
J’agree!
I second that agreement. I thought this was going to be Mikhailov's year. Maybe they didn't want to put a Russian player in 2 years in a row. Who knows?
The answer is that the guys getting in this year don't belong. They were not highly rated during their careers and that's reflected in their All-star selections.
Agreed. My bet for this year's class was Wickenheiser, Mikhailov and Alfredsson. Never decided on a 4th.
I guess next year will be Iginla, Alfredsson and Mikhailov. I'm not convinced Hossa will be in as a first-year-eligible but it might happen.
I will admit I know very little about int'l players that played little or no NHL games.
I do not know of Mikhailov. What card might he have?
Do you guys think they ever will induct layers from a long time ago? say from the 50's
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Mikhailov's true rookie is '69 Swedish Stickers, but PSA doesn't recognize that issue for some reason. All of his other cards/stickers are in the same boat, so I don't know that he would have a card in the HOF RCs set.
TY Andy
I am not sure Hossa is a 1st ballot HOFer but with 500+ goals and 3 Stanleys he will get in
Does Verbeek ever get in???? He really only had 2 good years. Or is he a numbers accumulator over 20 years.
Mogilny?
Turgeon?
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Mikhailov will be 79 Panini
Correct Casey, but asinine on their part IMO.
If I were voting, then as a side-by-side example, Doan deserves it before Verbeek gets consideration.
[("https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Mikhailov_(ice_hockey)")]
Besides all his regular season points accumulation and record holding and also playing on the line with Kharlamov & Petrov, check out the stat line from 1973 IIHF World Championships.
[("https://psacard.com/psasetregistry/hockey/modern-player-sets-1970-present/boris-mikhailov-master-set/composition/15809")]
Agreed there. the set you're talking about, 1969 Williams Forlags Ishockey 69/70, is the appropriate set for HHOF RC registry cards for Kharlamov, Nedomansky, Jakusjev, and eventually Mikhailov, and even Petrov (definitely will happen for Mikhailov, might happen for Petrov but if so I don't see it in the near future). The set also has the RC of Anders Hedberg, and the "famous" first appearance of Ken Dryden on a card, as they used his photo on Steve Carlyle's card. Williams Forlags was a major company of standard issue sports cards and non-sports cards across several companies and was a true competitor with Panini. It makes no sense why the registry would not be using their cards as the ones to get. I'll never understand why they would select a Sportscaster Jakusjev from 10 years later instead of a standard holder size card from a major company that is actually a rookie, let alone all the other errors of inclusion on the HHOF RC composition.
Selection day is coming up soon. I'm still thinking Iginla/Alfredsson/Mikhailov/Hossa are this year's four, though possible someone else may sneak in there instead. Anyone else with different guesses?
I think you’ve got three locks, but I think it’s Mogilny over Mikhailov. I’d like to see Roenick but no way this year after recent controversy. Doan is a popular choice. I’d love to see Brind’amour too. Doug Wilson and CuJo are long shots.
I agree that Doan gets in eventually too. He compiled a lot of points without as much help from linemates as players would have on other teams. He was classy and well-liked among his piers too. Success on the international stage even though he did not get a cup. I've heard/read a lot of cases against his getting in to the hall, but I'm not agreeing with those arguments/reasons. Plus, extra cool points for early '90's Kamloops with Iginla and Doan being teammates there.
Brind'Amour has a bigger hardware collection than Doan, which will help give him a better shot at getting there eventually.
I'm with you on Mogilny getting in at some point, but Mikhailov was a more prolific impact player in international play than Mogilny was, despite not being in the NHL. The last couple years have had international players from the same era get selected who in my opinion were not as deserving, so I'm pretty confident he gets in this year or next year.
Agreed, Roenick could have made it if not for his tendency to speak without a filter.
I can’t believe I forgot Turgeon. I was so confident he was getting in last year it just sorta seems like he already is in.
I’ll add Lowe as I longshot as I just read Gretzky is politicking for him.
I am convinced that Turgeon gets in before Roenick.
On goalies, Barrasso has the likability, Cujo has the wins, and Osgood has the cups, though none of those guys seem to get enough favorable support. Osgood's numbers are highly inflated as a product of a long period of Detroit relatively dominating the league. I think Luongo gets the call sooner than any of those guys does, and he will probably be the next goalie elected unless one of the pre-war candidates ends up in first (Lorne Chabot or John Ross Roach). I'm not yet convinced on Jiri Holecek.
No doubt Turgeon over Roenick. I was dumb for leaving him off my first list.
Next goalie in is a great debate. It could be any one of the ones you mention. I'll stick with Cujo just in a gentleman internet wager, but wouldn't be surprised by any of the others. Or with the lack of goalie love the hall has over the last decade or so, combined with the numerous skaters needing consideration, maybe the next goalie hasn't even built their resume yet. Maybe I'll change my answer to Spencer Knight.
I'm going to guess that Ryan Miller finds his way into the hall before Osgood does.
Anyone have a '93-'94 Iginla Kamloops card for sale? Also, what is Doan's best rookie card?
Here’s his worst one
I own both of the PSA graded 1993 Kamloops Iginla panels (both are Mint 9's). I had considered separating one of them so I'd have a graded single and a graded panel, but couldn't get myself to break up such a good looking panel, especially since they each had a chance at a 10 even though they ended up as 9. I suppose I could crack/separate/resub the single, but I am not going to do it. Hadn't planned on moving them at this point, but might consider the right trade if you want to PM. BTW, Doan is also in that same Kamloops set.
Iginla's toughest RC is the 1994 Select Gold. Lower print run than the Parkhurst SE Gold and the SP Die Cut, and much harder to land a 10 (or even a 9) than with the other two brands based on overall condition of the cards straight out of the pack.
Doan has significantly more different choices of RC product out there than Iginla. Even though the photo is terrible, I'd say his best RC is the UD Electric Ice Gold version. The lowest print run is the Classic Draft Printers Proof Gold (#/249), but more collectors tend to go for the NHL cards rather than the WHL cards produced by Classic. Not sure on print run for UD Electric Ice Gold, but I'm guessing it is higher than 249?
What do you guys think of P.Elias? Even though he put together a long and good career, I think he could remain a visitor to the hall rather than an inductee. However, there are less deserving (IMO) players in there already.
Another great question. First, I think the NHL HoF has done a far better job than MLB's or the NBA's in not letting the bar drop on inductions. (I don't follow NFL closely enough to opine on that). A lot of folks were furious about Carbonneau but it didn't bother me as much as Harold Baines.
Elias deserves consideration but I think he falls short. Too many names on the list, many in this thread, that get the nod before him. Hell, Fluery and Gonchar I don't think have even been mentioned yet and they should be ahead of Elias. Not to mention competition coming up - the Sedins, Zetterberg, Nash. Jagr and Datsyuk too probably, I'm not sure how playing overseas effects their eligibility. Then another generation will come due - probably ~20 active guys that will eventually make the hall? I just don't see the math working for Elias unless they were to expand the number eligible each year over 4.
If last year's surprise induction of Carbonneau and Nedomansky is any indication of what to expect going forward, we will be in for some more surprises. My guesses for 2020:
Iginla **(obvious lock), **Alf **(he'll be on my list every year until he finally makes it in), **Boris **and **Hossa.
Now, as for some players I'd like to see finally get their due who may not just yet, there's:
**Turgeon **(1,327 points - put this man in already!)
**Mogilny **(He's always in the discussion)
**Lowe **(So is he)
These guys are long shots, but scoring 50 goals 3 and 4 years in a row, respectively, is pretty darn elite:
Tim Kerr
John LeClair
My personal dark horse who will probably never get it...
Kent Nilsson. He's 9th all time in points per game with 1.241! That's more than a TON of players already in the HOF. Big names like Esposito, LaFleur, Sakic, Yzerman, Kurri, Trottier, Hull, Hull, Messier. You get the picture.
Any thoughts on a more senior candidate making it in this year? It's interesting that hockey is the only one of the 4 major sports without a senior category for its HOF elections.
How about a female inductee? I think Cassie Campbell is up there, but I'm pretty sure she was on the election committee last year, so that would eliminate that possibility if the same is true again. Botterill and Ouellette seem like strong candidates.
Selection announcement from Toronto is at 4:30pm Eastern today...
My predictions are Iginla, Hossa, Turgeon, and Fleury.
Both 2019 and 2020 had only one guaranteed lock (2019 = H. Wickenheiser; 2020 = J. Iginla). It does make things fun when we don't know who the others will be each year until the official announcement.
Sans Fleury and Turgeon. Plus Alfredsson. IMO
Wow, I sure didn't expect Wilson this year!
Happy that Lowe finally got in!
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On the plus side, at least Lowe and Wilson were mentioned as long shots in this thread.
I’m not all about offense- I defended Carbonneau last year - but both these guys over Turgeon, Alfredsson and Mogilny?
Not surprised by the no international (non NHL)
Both Lowe and Wilson are ex-GM/current GM and 7 of the 18 voting committee members are ex-GMs; and it only takes 14 votes to get in. Yep, they got some non-ice work recognition, so I agree with you!
So with no 2021 HHOF new members, does anyone else agree we could very well see the maximum allotted 8 get voted in for 2022? I'm thinking it is entirely possible. Most of these will get the call:
Mikhailov
Zetterberg
D. Sedin
H. Sedin
Luongo
Alfredsson
Mogilny
Turgeon
Plus at least one if not more of the following three will get in too: Caroline Ouellette / Julie Chu / Meghan Duggan
When players like Cujo, Doan, Fleury, Brind'Amour, Elias, and Nash for example are voting eligible and still not going to be cracking the top 8, you know there is a good crop of incoming inductees...
Did they already announce that they'll double the max number to 8 for next year? I had assumed they would, but the hockey HOF doesn't always do the logical thing. I think the Sedins are locks, but nothing is set in stone after that (Jagr has to wait until at least 2023, right?) Boris, Luongo and Alf are all good choices. Mogilny as well. I think Turgeon is way overdue, but for some reason I think they'll continue to make him wait. Zetterberg will get in, but I don't know if it'll be first ballot. I think Caroline Ouellette and Jennifer Botterill are the most likely to get in for the women.
Besides Mikhailov, do any other veteran candidates have much of a shot? I've always found it strange that the hockey HOF does not have a senior slot.
Along with Turgeon I am surprised Vernon and Moog are not in?
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For whatever reason, it’s tough for goalies to get in the HOF. Barrasso is still waiting, too.
Jagr and Datsyuk both played professionally this past 2020-21 season. Neither has retired yet. It will be 3 years after retirement. When they do retire, both will be first-ballot locks.
I read somewhere that this would be the case, but I can't find the article.
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Not sure on vets. Maybe Jiri Holecek as a dark horse eventual candidate? I don't think he gets it, but I would have said the same about Nedomansky.