@PerryHall said:
For many coins the mintages are not relevant. Rather, you need to look at the number of surviving specimens. The experts at PCGS Coin Facts states there are 50,000 09SVDB cents surviving and there are 80,000 31-S cents surviving. Also, unlike the 31-S, the 09-SVDB has been very heavily counterfeited which explains the large disparity in the number of slabbed specimens. Most 09-SVDB cents in the circulated grades are primarily slabbed to verify the authenticity of the coin before it's put in the coin album to complete the set..
Agree on both looking at survivors and counterfeiting.
The PCGS Coin Facts estimate for the 31-S seems rather low for a coin with limited circulation since it was released proximately to the start of mass collecting, But even if these estimates are reasonably correct, there is a much better chance that there are 50,000 collectors who want the 09-S VDB at or near it's current market price than 80.000 for the 31-S.
The link below purports to record historical prices, presumably from the Red Book though I didn't try to find it on the site. Here is an example of both dates over time, 1975 and 2018. I used MS-60 in 1975 (an "UNC" at the time) and MS-63RB (as a proxy).
1931-S: $50 and $175
09-S VDB: $275 and $1800
I started collecting in 1975. According to this source, the all time peak for the 31-S adjusted for price changes was $95 in 1965. Either way, it's been a big money loser if bought a long time ago. The 09-S VDB has done a lot better. Actual performance would have varied greatly, depending upon the specific coin quality and when bought.
@REALGATOR said:
Just like any collectible: A story feeds demand and price follows.
It's more than just the story which certainly helps. Don't forget that the 1909SVDB is the key date for this very popular series and is the rarest regular issue Lincoln cent. Only a few varieties are rarer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
the price disparity seems to be the "mystique" associated with the 1909-S VDB which attaches itself to us as children and never leaves.
Every coin collecting kid in the town I grew up in dreamed of finding a 1909 SVDB for their collection. The only person I knew who ever found one was the local pharmacist. He found his in a bag of pennies from a Nebraska bank. A friend and I got invited to his house to look at it. Very nice coin, lustrous with little or no wear. This was in the early '60's.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
When I was growing up, a neighbor across the street supposedly owned a BU roll of 1909 vdbs (no S). I never saw the roll, but that was about the time I decided to save rolls.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Comments
Not sure i would characterize it as "extreme hype". Seems like the desirability has stood the test of time.
Fame
First-year issue
One-year type
Good story
Marketing
Reason why we named our company VDB Coins instead of 31-S Coins.
Kind regards,
George
Agree on both looking at survivors and counterfeiting.
The PCGS Coin Facts estimate for the 31-S seems rather low for a coin with limited circulation since it was released proximately to the start of mass collecting, But even if these estimates are reasonably correct, there is a much better chance that there are 50,000 collectors who want the 09-S VDB at or near it's current market price than 80.000 for the 31-S.
The link below purports to record historical prices, presumably from the Red Book though I didn't try to find it on the site. Here is an example of both dates over time, 1975 and 2018. I used MS-60 in 1975 (an "UNC" at the time) and MS-63RB (as a proxy).
1931-S: $50 and $175
09-S VDB: $275 and $1800
I started collecting in 1975. According to this source, the all time peak for the 31-S adjusted for price changes was $95 in 1965. Either way, it's been a big money loser if bought a long time ago. The 09-S VDB has done a lot better. Actual performance would have varied greatly, depending upon the specific coin quality and when bought.
https://www.us-coin-values-advisor.com/Lincoln-cents-1929-1933.html#1931-S
https://www.us-coin-values-advisor.com/Lincoln-cent.html#1909-SVDB
Just like any collectible: A story feeds demand and price follows.
It's more than just the story which certainly helps. Don't forget that the 1909SVDB is the key date for this very popular series and is the rarest regular issue Lincoln cent. Only a few varieties are rarer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
More marketing dollars and holders of the first are required to cover the costs. It’s just popularity contest
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
In my early collecting days, "Esveedeebee" was a universal password.
the price disparity seems to be the "mystique" associated with the 1909-S VDB which attaches itself to us as children and never leaves.
Every coin collecting kid in the town I grew up in dreamed of finding a 1909 SVDB for their collection. The only person I knew who ever found one was the local pharmacist. He found his in a bag of pennies from a Nebraska bank. A friend and I got invited to his house to look at it. Very nice coin, lustrous with little or no wear. This was in the early '60's.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Would have been a wonderful thing if the mint would have made a 2009 SVDB to go along with the four Lincoln penny issues in the Chronicles set.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
When I was growing up, a neighbor across the street supposedly owned a BU roll of 1909 vdbs (no S). I never saw the roll, but that was about the time I decided to save rolls.
I knew it would happen.