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PWCC- How do they do it?
l10duff
Posts: 5 ✭
This weekend PWCC has up for auction five different 1974 PSA 10's. The cards have populations of 16, 9, 17, 7, and 7 respectively. If I look at previous auction sales, these cards come up for auction, maybe once a year. Should I be worried they are authentic? Also, if I look at the bid histories, I am bidding against the same bidder on all the auctions and that bidder has a bid activity of 83% with PWCC. The prices are already at the tops of what these auctions have brought in the past. Am I getting shilled?
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Couldn't that "other bidder" say the same thing about you if he see's you bidding all the time on cards he wants?
As far as bid history % and all that, some people do bid a lot/loyal with PWCC, Probstein, etc.
Are they commons? If so, I wouldn’t worry too much. I’m no longer bidding with them but it’s a personal decision about integrity. As for shilling, again, hard to say. There aren’t many high volume sellers who continually run high volume $0.99 auctions. So people tend to bid a lot with those sellers. I think bid % with a particular seller is overblown as evidence of shilling. Other evidence would need to bolster a case. Even cards going for above market price isn’t unusual. Certainly it can be due to shilling sometimes. Other times, you can chalk it up to the number of eyeballs looking at an item and timing of how many are seeking that item at a given time. If you have a well know seller listing a card, it tends to get more looks. If you get two people who happen to aggressively want a card at the same time, that’s all it takes.
I recently had a few PSA 9 star cards from a popular set up on eBay. They closed at 3x VCP average even though they come up for sale maybe every other month on average. After my sales, the subsequent auctions closed around historical VCP average. It was lucky timing for me, unlucky timing for the buyer.
I recommend determining a price you’re willing to pay, set a snipe and then live with the results. They aren’t pop 1 or 2 cards, so you’ll likely have a chance to pick them up in the future.
I can understand if they are after the same cards, but 83 percent of all their bids are on cards that PWCC has listed???
If you enter an auction like that, you just have to play by their rules if you really want the card. There's really nothing you can do, but pay whatever the price ends up being, if you really want the card. That's the way the game is played these days.
Believe it or not, but yeah.
My biggest concern is the probability that PWCC has available for auction these five cards at one time. The statistical math just doesnt seem right even considering their size.
As you stated and others have as well, cards auctioned with PWCC get top dollar and then some.
If you are bidding on their auctions, don't expect a bargain.
You may or may not realize they are a consignment seller.
It sounds to me like someone is off loading some nice cards and listed them as a group to get more attention.
Has there been any changes to top registry sets? Are these fresh graded cards?
Good call to check changes in the top registry sets Dpeck100. Woudn't have thought of that.
Quit worrying about something you have no control over. Decide how much you are willing to pay for the cards you want, bid (or snipe, my advice in this case) what you are willing to pay, and move on.
You are only getting shilled if you pay more for the card than you think it's worth, and then you are just helping the shiller.
I used to get all upset when I thought there was "funny business" going on with an auction. It no longer bothers me. Sellers are going to find a way to bid on their own cards even if they list them themselves.
If you are that upset over the statistical math thing, simply do not bid. If you are not feeling good about the cards you are getting (or trying to get) you are not having fun with the hobby.
Not everything revolves around the registry, believe it or not. I sent in a bunch of cards awhile back that would have been money makers if they were 10's, got a couple 10's mostly 9's and some 8's. None got added to any registry set.
Good luck and have fun collecting!
This just isn’t true. I may be willing to pay $20 for a card, but I shouldn't have to unless another legitimate bidder is willing to pay $19.
Exactly. That is why shill bidding is fraud and a felony if the person is caught doing it. Ask Bill Mastro.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
You have read all of the threads about PWCC and what they have allowed to go on with their businesses right? You already have reservations about authenticity and shilling regarding this seller. You already know the answer. Dozens if not hundreds of altered cards have been proven to have shuffled through that outfit. They are dirty and you will always wonder about any purchase you make through them
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I'm in the camp of folks that can't support purchasing from PWCC. The OP has gotten good advice, but why take the risk and why support them is my question. I understand others may not agree, that's what makes a market. Good luck.
Steve
The Doomsday Collection
Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor | All-Time Dallas Cowboys | Bob Lilly Master | Pro Football HOF Dallas Cowboys
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Because stuff trumps all. We've seen it over and over and over. Integrity goes out the window when it comes to acquiring things for many, many people.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=1974+topps+psa+10+pwcc&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=16&LH_Auction=1&_osacat=0&_odkw=1974+topps+psa+10+&rt=nc
Only one of the PSA 10's they are auctioning off is a newer cert. I am inclined to think someone had a batch of 10's and decided to let them go all at once. This is very common because it catches attention and can lead to stronger selling prices.
The fact that these came from PWCC is a non issue and while some may choose not to bid with them for personal reasons they have sold so many cards that there is no chance the market can punish them all. They have been the premier EBAY seller since 2010 when I started getting more serious about graded cards and have auctioned off a huge percentage of the highest end cards to hit EBAY during that time frame.
The bid percentage is always a tough one because on one hand it is reasonable to assume an issue and on the other there are scads of bidders myself included who have been in a similar situation where we have not bid on many recent items and a consignment seller lists a batch of cards and the percentage looks exorbitant.
If you are getting the card at a price you are comfortable with, that's good enough.
Try and keep reality in mind.
Funny how almost no one cares about ebay's bid retraction policy, where it's basically a license to bid up any card to it's highest offer and then retract your bid. Some bidders have many retractions, why is this allowed to continue?
How about the fact that ebay allows all of these fakes to be sold on their site? Do they police any of their sellers? Doubtful as long as the fees keep rolling in.
If you are so upset at PWCC, don't bid on their auctions. It's as simple as that. I will continue to bid on items I want no matter who offers them, because I won't offer more than I am willing to pay.
I have bid on two PWCC auctions since the latest mess came to light, and lost them both. I thought the items went WAY to high. Oh well, I'll simply wait for the similar item to come along. If it never does, I will survive.
YES, getting an item at the lowest price is always desirable, but I know what an item is worth to me before I bid on it, so I don't worry about things beyond my control.
I would say that EVERY ebay auction has the potential for shilling. Seller can create a different account or just have a friend or relative throw in a bid.
If you are consumed by worry and anger over the things that have happened, are happening, and will continue to happen in this hobby, maybe you should find a hobby you can enjoy.
I will continue to enjoy this imperfect hobby and have fun collecting.
Hope you can do the same!
I don't know why I was worried, all these cards have "Authenticity Verified" by eBay. Haha.
Agreed. Many collectors have an uncanny knack of coming to terms with getting screwed with all kinds of ridiculous rationalizations but at the end of the day, in many cases, stuff trumps all. That is one of the primary reasons this hobby is so resilient even in the wake of negative news. I'm not sure that is necessarily a bad thing. We are all here (or many of us anyway) because we love collecting.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Welcome to the forum
Remember, PWCC takes consignments. Did these five cards come from the same person? Say, a collector who went all-out to collect certain PSA 10s, and is now liquidating their collection.
As an example, I collect San Diego Padre cards. I have three PSA 10 1974 Padres, all with a population below 10 copies; and I don't go "all-out" to obtain PSA 10s. I have passed up several PSA 10s, simply because I didn't want to pay more than $100 for them at the time.
Steve
Smart buyer!.............now if I had unlimited funds.....................
The question should be why did they do it? From Pre War Card Collector to Post War Card Cutter. I've been to prison before as a guest speaker and all I can say is good luck Brent,haha