It thought this was quite interesting. Although Gil's career almost mirrors that of everyone else mentioned you just don't see the others having such a rabid following of people trying to get them into the HoF. The real only difference is that Gil Hodges played for Brooklyn and their fans always seem to believe everyone from their childhood team should be in the HoF. There is not one other player on this list that should make the HoF.....so neither should Gil.
@ArtVandelay said:
The odd thing is that these guys get no push for their HOF
Al Oliver
.303 219hrs 1326rbis 2743 hits (529 doubles) 7 time all star + received MVP votes in 10 different seasons
Dave Parker
.290 339hrs 1493rbis 2712hits (526 doubles) 7 time all star + received MVP votes in 9 different seasons
Steve Garvey
.294 272 1308rbi 2599hits 10 time all star + 9 times in the MVP voting
Ted Simmons
.285 248hrs 1389rbi 2472 hits(483 doubles) 8 time all star 7 time in MVP voting (and a catcher!)
Joe Torre (elected as a manager...but not as a player)
.297avg 252 hrs 1185rbis 2342hits 9 time all star 7 times in the MVP voting
There have been some pretty good discussions here about all of the above, and each has his HOF supporters. Torre became moot when he got in as a manager, but I always thought he should have gone in as a player. Other than Garvey, who was about equal, they were all clearly better players than Hodges.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@ArtVandelay said:
It thought this was quite interesting. Although Gil's career almost mirrors that of everyone else mentioned you just don't see the others having such a rabid following of people trying to get them into the HoF. The real only difference is that Gil Hodges played for Brooklyn and their fans always seem to believe everyone from their childhood team should be in the HoF. There is not one other player on this list that should make the HoF.....so neither should Gil.
Gil Hodges.
.273 370hrs 1274 rbi 1921 hits
Missed at least 2 years in the Military or his totals would be higher. Gil did have an 10 year stretch where he basically didn't miss a game (3 per year on average), none of the other guys can claim that. Averaged about 138 games played per year out of 154. .846 OPS. Tremendous fielder. Manager.
When he retired after the 1963 season, he had hit the most home runs (370) ever by a right handed batter up to that point in time.
Norm Cash
.271 377 hrs 1104rbi 1820 hits
>
Did not miss any time due to military. Left handed batter. Averaged about 130 games per year out of 162. No GG. Very nice .862 OPS
Frank Howard
.273 382 hrs 1119rbi 1774 hits
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B much, way more in outfield. Averaged about 134 games per year out of 162. . 851 OPS.
Greg Luzinkski
.276 307 hrs 1128rbi 1795 hits
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B much, way more in outfield. Averaged about 129 games per year out of 162. .840 OPS
Roy Sievers
.267 318 hrs 1147rbi 1703 hits
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B much more than OF. Averaged about 117 games per year out of first 154 then 162. .829 OPS
Willie Horton
.273 325hrs 1163rbi 1993 hits
>
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B. Averaged about 118 games per year out of 162. .789 OPS.
Lee May
.267 354hrs 1244rbi 2031hits
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Averaged about 122 games per year out of 162. .772 OPS. No GG
George Foster
.274 348hrs 1239 rbi 1925 hits
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B. Averaged about 116 games per year out of 162. .818 OPS
Rocky Colavito
.266 374 hrs 1159rbi 1730 hits
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B. Averaged about 141 games per year out of 162. .848 OPS.
Boog Powell
.266 339hrs 1187rbi 1776 hits
Did not miss any time due to military. Left handed batter. Averaged about 127 games per year out of 162. .822 OPS
Joe Adcock
.277 336hrs 1122rbi 1832hits
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Averaged about 115 games per year out of 154 for most of his career. No GG .822 OPS.
Jack Clark
.267 340hrs 1180rbi 1826 hits
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B much, way more in outfield. Averaged about 32 games per year out of 162. .854 OPS
Mirrored? After taking out the outfielders the list looks like this;
Joe Adcock
.277 336hrs 1122rbi 1832hits. 7303 PA, 3205 Total Bases, 594 Walks TB+BB÷PA=.5201
Lee May
.267 354hrs 1244rbi 2031hits. 8219 PA, 3495 Total Bases, 487 Walks TB+BB÷PA=.4844
Looks to me that it actually comes down to Cash and Hodges. Both played in hitter friendly parks with
Cash having an advantage in most of the "away" parks by being a left handed batter.
Using only hitting numbers, I give Cash a very slight edge. Defensively (no one cares) Hodges wins.
I think both players were very well liked. Both died rather tragically. Hodges has to get a little credit for managing a team that won a WS, but not a huge amount.
Put them BOTH in!
@ArtVandelay said:
The odd thing is that these guys get no push for their HOF
Al Oliver
.303 219hrs 1326rbis 2743 hits (529 doubles) 7 time all star + received MVP votes in 10 different seasons
Dave Parker
.290 339hrs 1493rbis 2712hits (526 doubles) 7 time all star + received MVP votes in 9 different seasons
Steve Garvey
.294 272 1308rbi 2599hits 10 time all star + 9 times in the MVP voting
Ted Simmons
.285 248hrs 1389rbi 2472 hits(483 doubles) 8 time all star 7 time in MVP voting (and a catcher!)
Joe Torre (elected as a manager...but not as a player)
.297avg 252 hrs 1185rbis 2342hits 9 time all star 7 times in the MVP voting
Torre is in, and the others, especially Simmons, get mentioned all the time. Garvey should have walked more and a bit weak as a HR hitter, but he could go in if you ask me. Parker and Oliver were great too!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@daltex said:
Sigh. Why don't we just say that Jimmie Foxx (.356 48 163) in 1933 was VASTLY superior to Carl Yastrzemski (.301 23 74) in 1968?
It's kind of fun debating guys who were similar, Foxx was a beast!
How about Foxx's 1929 and Yaz's '68 almost identical OPS+ but very different years imo.
This is my entire point, that it doesn't make much sense to compare raw numbers, especially from different leagues or different eras. In fact despite similar appearing numbers, the above players were vastly different. If Foxx had hit the way he did in 1933 in 1968 it would easily have been the best season of all time.
@daltex said:
Sigh. Why don't we just say that Jimmie Foxx (.356 48 163) in 1933 was VASTLY superior to Carl Yastrzemski (.301 23 74) in 1968?
It's kind of fun debating guys who were similar, Foxx was a beast!
How about Foxx's 1929 and Yaz's '68 almost identical OPS+ but very different years imo.
This is my entire point, that it doesn't make much sense to compare raw numbers, especially from different leagues or different eras. In fact despite similar appearing numbers, the above players were vastly different. If Foxx had hit the way he did in 1933 in 1968 it would easily have been the best season of all time.
I don't think the "+" works when comparing players from different eras.
It's kind of like BA only better. Two guys can have similar OPS+ numbers but very different years, yet the stat seems to get misused as a number that "proves" something.
Big difference beween evidence and proof.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Comments
It thought this was quite interesting. Although Gil's career almost mirrors that of everyone else mentioned you just don't see the others having such a rabid following of people trying to get them into the HoF. The real only difference is that Gil Hodges played for Brooklyn and their fans always seem to believe everyone from their childhood team should be in the HoF. There is not one other player on this list that should make the HoF.....so neither should Gil.
Gil Hodges.
.273 370hrs 1274 rbi 1921 hits
Norm Cash
.271 377 hrs 1104rbi 1820 hits
Frank Howard
.273 382 hrs 1119rbi 1774 hits
Greg Luzinkski
.276 307 hrs 1128rbi 1795 hits
Roy Sievers
.267 318 hrs 1147rbi 1703 hits
Willie Horton
.273 325hrs 1163rbi 1993 hits
Lee May
.267 354hrs 1244rbi 2031hits
George Foster
.274 348hrs 1239 rbi 1925 hits
Rocky Colavito
.266 374 hrs 1159rbi 1730 hits
Boog Powell
.266 339hrs 1187rbi 1776 hits
Joe Adcock
.277 336hrs 1122rbi 1832hits
Jack Clark
.267 340hrs 1180rbi 1826 hits
The odd thing is that these guys get no push for their HOF
Al Oliver
.303 219hrs 1326rbis 2743 hits (529 doubles) 7 time all star + received MVP votes in 10 different seasons
Dave Parker
.290 339hrs 1493rbis 2712hits (526 doubles) 7 time all star + received MVP votes in 9 different seasons
Steve Garvey
.294 272 1308rbi 2599hits 10 time all star + 9 times in the MVP voting
Ted Simmons
.285 248hrs 1389rbi 2472 hits(483 doubles) 8 time all star 7 time in MVP voting (and a catcher!)
Joe Torre (elected as a manager...but not as a player)
.297avg 252 hrs 1185rbis 2342hits 9 time all star 7 times in the MVP voting
There have been some pretty good discussions here about all of the above, and each has his HOF supporters. Torre became moot when he got in as a manager, but I always thought he should have gone in as a player. Other than Garvey, who was about equal, they were all clearly better players than Hodges.
When he retired after the 1963 season, he had hit the most home runs (370) ever by a right handed batter up to that point in time.
>
Did not miss any time due to military. Left handed batter. Averaged about 130 games per year out of 162. No GG. Very nice .862 OPS
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B much, way more in outfield. Averaged about 134 games per year out of 162. . 851 OPS.
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B much, way more in outfield. Averaged about 129 games per year out of 162. .840 OPS
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B much more than OF. Averaged about 117 games per year out of first 154 then 162. .829 OPS
>
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B. Averaged about 118 games per year out of 162. .789 OPS.
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Averaged about 122 games per year out of 162. .772 OPS. No GG
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B. Averaged about 116 games per year out of 162. .818 OPS
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B. Averaged about 141 games per year out of 162. .848 OPS.
Did not miss any time due to military. Left handed batter. Averaged about 127 games per year out of 162. .822 OPS
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Averaged about 115 games per year out of 154 for most of his career. No GG .822 OPS.
Did not miss any time due to military. Right handed batter. Did not play 1B much, way more in outfield. Averaged about 32 games per year out of 162. .854 OPS
Mirrored? After taking out the outfielders the list looks like this;
Norm Cash
.271 377 hrs 1104rbi 1820 hits. 7914 PA, 3274 Total Bases, 1043 Walks TB+BB÷PA=.5454
Gil Hodges
273 370hrs 1274 rbi 1921 hits. 8102 PA, 3422 Total Bases, 943 Walks TB+BB÷PA=.5387
Boog Powell
.266 339hrs 1187rbi 1776 hits. 7809 PA, 3085 Total Bases, 1001 Walks TB+BB÷PA=.5232
Joe Adcock
.277 336hrs 1122rbi 1832hits. 7303 PA, 3205 Total Bases, 594 Walks TB+BB÷PA=.5201
Lee May
.267 354hrs 1244rbi 2031hits. 8219 PA, 3495 Total Bases, 487 Walks TB+BB÷PA=.4844
Looks to me that it actually comes down to Cash and Hodges. Both played in hitter friendly parks with
Cash having an advantage in most of the "away" parks by being a left handed batter.
Using only hitting numbers, I give Cash a very slight edge. Defensively (no one cares) Hodges wins.
I think both players were very well liked. Both died rather tragically. Hodges has to get a little credit for managing a team that won a WS, but not a huge amount.
Put them BOTH in!
Torre is in, and the others, especially Simmons, get mentioned all the time. Garvey should have walked more and a bit weak as a HR hitter, but he could go in if you ask me. Parker and Oliver were great too!
Sigh. Why don't we just say that Jimmie Foxx (.356 48 163) in 1933 was VASTLY superior to Carl Yastrzemski (.301 23 74) in 1968?
It's kind of fun debating guys who were similar, Foxx was a beast!
How about Foxx's 1929 and Yaz's '68 almost identical OPS+ but very different years imo.
This is my entire point, that it doesn't make much sense to compare raw numbers, especially from different leagues or different eras. In fact despite similar appearing numbers, the above players were vastly different. If Foxx had hit the way he did in 1933 in 1968 it would easily have been the best season of all time.
I don't think the "+" works when comparing players from different eras.
It's kind of like BA only better. Two guys can have similar OPS+ numbers but very different years, yet the stat seems to get misused as a number that "proves" something.
Big difference beween evidence and proof.