Pls help me appreciate this recent grade

MCMLVTopps

My submission, I thought would grab a 9 for almost certain...obviously looking for a 10. It's a hand cut, which kinda requires you to sneak up on the dashed lines, then I finished with 320 grit sandpaper. I'm thinking the lower right edge by the stiching dropped me down, but prior to submitting. I even used a magnifying glass, the slightly raised edges (which you can't see unless you hold the card edge-wise) were not there when it went into snail mail.

It is what it is, but do feel a bit short sheeted on this one. Glad I got at least the 8.

Robby

Excellent job on the cut ………….I've never thought about using sandpaper to smooth the edges ! When I cut my Brock Wiffle , I used a plain old pair of hand scissors and did a horrible job of cutting it ! What did you use ??? Grader could have been a little more generous on your Tiant !
Robbie

SDSportsFan

Top-left, between 10:00 and 12:00; the red border appears narrower, and there is no white showing. My guess is the grader marked down on that, as it appears you cut into the red.

Steve

JoeBanzai

I would simply say you should have gotten a 9.

To be a complete nit-picker, the distance between the dotted lines and edge of card varies a bit, but I would give you the 9.

SWEET card!

DBesse27

@JoeBanzai said:
I would simply say you should have gotten a 9.

To be a complete nit-picker, the distance between the dotted lines and edge of card varies a bit, but I would give you the 9.

SWEET card!

These are my thoughts as well. Hand cut round items are a terror! Definitely not a 10, but gorgeous nonetheless, and much better than I could have done!

DBesse27

Btw can you link your Tiant master set? I recall you have other Red Sox player sets too, like Bill Lee. Link one and I can check them all out. Thanks!

SDSportsFan

There are also at least three brown spots in the white background at the top.

Call it "nit-picking" if you want, but that's what graders do.

Steve

MCMLVTopps

@Robby said:
Excellent job on the cut ………….I've never thought about using sandpaper to smooth the edges ! When I cut my Brock Wiffle , I used a plain old pair of hand scissors and did a horrible job of cutting it ! What did you use ??? Grader could have been a little more generous on your Tiant !
Robbie

Used a sharp pair of scissors and slowly crept up on the dashes... then I used 320 grit sand paper cupped in my hand to allow for a rounded result. This while gently holding the center of the disc with my thumb and index finger to "spin" the card through the sand paper...checking often to see how I was doing. A little time involved, but you do what you gotta do and hope for the best.

Tks,
Al

MCMLVTopps

@DBesse27 said:
Btw can you link your Tiant master set? I recall you have other Red Sox player sets too, like Bill Lee. Link one and I can check them all out. Thanks!

Here you go...linked both...go to digital album to see cards.

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/player-sets/modern-player-sets-1970-present/luis-tiant-master-set/2001
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/player-sets/modern-player-sets-1970-present/bill-lee-master-set/6998

MCMLVTopps

@SDSportsFan said:
Top-left, between 10:00 and 12:00; the red border appears narrower, and there is no white showing. My guess is the grader marked down on that, as it appears you cut into the red.

Steve

No cuts, all smooth around the disc...I've seen a lot of discs and sought out the 9s and 10s to see how sharp I had to be...not to complain, but mine is equal to or better than those in 9 and 10 slabs. I guess when you get into microscopic detail it's another world. I still think it's a 9 all day.

jay0791

I couldn't begin to say how these cards are graded. Or any hand cut for that matter.
Looks like you did a fantastic job. Very nice indeed.

JoeBanzai

@SDSportsFan said:
There are also at least three brown spots in the white background at the top.

Call it "nit-picking" if you want, but that's what graders do.

Steve

You are correct on the spots.

I was so focused on the cut, I didn't take an overall look at the card.

DBesse27

@MCMLVTopps said:

@DBesse27 said:
Btw can you link your Tiant master set? I recall you have other Red Sox player sets too, like Bill Lee. Link one and I can check them all out. Thanks!

Here you go...linked both...go to digital album to see cards.

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/player-sets/modern-player-sets-1970-present/luis-tiant-master-set/2001
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/player-sets/modern-player-sets-1970-present/bill-lee-master-set/6998

Wow, such tremendous sets! Good luck finding the 67 Venz to complete your Tiant master!

Did Lee really have only 40 cards during his career? Or are you aware of some oddballs that can be added to the checklist?

I own several nice Tiant items, but my favorite is an autographed copy of his OPC RC. Card is graded PSA 8.

MCMLVTopps

@DBesse27 said:

@MCMLVTopps said:

@DBesse27 said:
Btw can you link your Tiant master set? I recall you have other Red Sox player sets too, like Bill Lee. Link one and I can check them all out. Thanks!

Here you go...linked both...go to digital album to see cards.

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/player-sets/modern-player-sets-1970-present/luis-tiant-master-set/2001
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/player-sets/modern-player-sets-1970-present/bill-lee-master-set/6998

Wow, such tremendous sets! Good luck finding the 67 Venz to complete your Tiant master!

Did Lee really have only 40 cards during his career? Or are you aware of some oddballs that can be added to the checklist?

I own several nice Tiant items, but my favorite is an autographed copy of his OPC RC. Card is graded PSA 8.

I had been 100% for a long time....somebody had the composition changed, not me. Not one 67 Venz in any master set shown. Oh well, part of the game I guess.

As for Lee, I don't know, 40 cards is what I could find.

Tks,
Al

DBesse27

@MCMLVTopps said:

@DBesse27 said:

@MCMLVTopps said:

@DBesse27 said:
Btw can you link your Tiant master set? I recall you have other Red Sox player sets too, like Bill Lee. Link one and I can check them all out. Thanks!

Here you go...linked both...go to digital album to see cards.

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/player-sets/modern-player-sets-1970-present/luis-tiant-master-set/2001
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/player-sets/modern-player-sets-1970-present/bill-lee-master-set/6998

Wow, such tremendous sets! Good luck finding the 67 Venz to complete your Tiant master!

Did Lee really have only 40 cards during his career? Or are you aware of some oddballs that can be added to the checklist?

I own several nice Tiant items, but my favorite is an autographed copy of his OPC RC. Card is graded PSA 8.

I had been 100% for a long time....somebody had the composition changed, not me. Not one 67 Venz in any master set shown. Oh well, part of the game I guess.

As for Lee, I don't know, 40 cards is what I could find.

Tks,
Al

It's an interesting question I ask many master set registrants: regardless of whether any of you own one, shouldn't the master composite contain the 67 Venz? And everything else it possibly can? In my opinion, a master set composite should be as complete a checklist of that player's playing-era cards as possible. I've never seen a "complete" master checklist on the registry of any player, since there are sets PSA can't/won't grade, but I've always believed a comprehensive checklist should always be the goal. That's not to say I'm right and you're wrong, simply that I've heard your sentiments before from other collectors and I find the debate interesting.

MCMLVTopps

@DBesse27 said:

@MCMLVTopps said:

@DBesse27 said:

@MCMLVTopps said:

@DBesse27 said:
Btw can you link your Tiant master set? I recall you have other Red Sox player sets too, like Bill Lee. Link one and I can check them all out. Thanks!

Here you go...linked both...go to digital album to see cards.

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/player-sets/modern-player-sets-1970-present/luis-tiant-master-set/2001
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/player-sets/modern-player-sets-1970-present/bill-lee-master-set/6998

Wow, such tremendous sets! Good luck finding the 67 Venz to complete your Tiant master!

Did Lee really have only 40 cards during his career? Or are you aware of some oddballs that can be added to the checklist?

I own several nice Tiant items, but my favorite is an autographed copy of his OPC RC. Card is graded PSA 8.

I had been 100% for a long time....somebody had the composition changed, not me. Not one 67 Venz in any master set shown. Oh well, part of the game I guess.

As for Lee, I don't know, 40 cards is what I could find.

Tks,
Al

It's an interesting question I ask many master set registrants: regardless of whether any of you own one, shouldn't the master composite contain the 67 Venz? And everything else it possibly can? In my opinion, a master set composite should be as complete a checklist of that player's playing-era cards as possible. I've never seen a "complete" master checklist on the registry of any player, since there are sets PSA can't/won't grade, but I've always believed a comprehensive checklist should always be the goal. That's not to say I'm right and you're wrong, simply that I've heard your sentiments before from other collectors and I find the debate interesting.

I've been around long enough to have seen quite a few things with PSA, POP report validity, the half-point change and other things. As an additional example, there are a plethora of PSA graded Wiffle Discs that say "1976"...truth is, there are only 1978 inserts and 1979 issues that were on the side of boxes...like the one in the subject line.

I'm rapidly coming to a point of selling what I have and maybe donating many to a worthy cause. It's just become much too tedious and often times head-scratching to understand how and why things are done as they are.

Your comment about actual playing year cards is spot on, not what he did or didn't do elsewhere. As a classic example, go to my Tiant Master digital set...you will see two large Pickoff cards...the supposed UK version has the only difference in the two cards in a micro-mice type on the back of the card. So, one wonders, is it all really worth the time effort, expense, etc and years upon years of searching, only to see the composition change by somebody who is and has zero intention of trying to put the set together, only to topple the #1 guy down to 99% ?? Why would one do such a thing if not collecting the master set?

DBesse27

Oh there are many more nation variations of Sportscasters than just the 2 you listed

ldferg

Beautiful cut. The surface appears to be the downgrade. No way the distance between the lines hurt you on this.

MCMLVTopps

@DBesse27 said:
Oh there are many more nation variations of Sportscasters than just the 2 you listed

Yes, I know that...however, my point is that the ONLY difference in the two cards that I have is simply the very, VERY tiny mice type on the back bottom of the card. Therefore, it does occur to me that PSA is allowing such nonsense for some tiny lettering, not the actual pic of the player. You can see this for yourself by easily slipping between the two Sportscasters backs in my set. A useless composition change that has absolutely nothing to do with the card depicted and should never have been allowed.

DBesse27

Yes, I’m aware that the only difference is the fine print on back. You’re entitled to your opinion that PSA calling them different cards is nonsense.

Devil’s advocate: are you saying if the image on the card front is the same, that small differences on the back should always be ignored? Because if that’s the case, my entire 1968 Venezuelan Topps set should just be lumped in with the American versions on the pop report. The only difference (besides card stock) is the tiny white text on back that says “hecho en Venezuela.”

MCMLVTopps

@DBesse27 said:
Yes, I’m aware that the only difference is the fine print on back. You’re entitled to your opinion that PSA calling them different cards is nonsense.

Devil’s advocate: are you saying if the image on the card front is the same, that small differences on the back should always be ignored? Because if that’s the case, my entire 1968 Venezuelan Topps set should just be lumped in with the American versions on the pop report. The only difference (besides card stock) is the tiny white text on back that says “hecho en Venezuela.”

The case I cite is only for the Sportscaster issues. The front photos are identical, as is the write up on the back. To see the difference between the two cards, you have to almost use a magnifying glass to view the back bottom to read the mice type. When the pic is different due to the printing process and it is clearly obvious that its from a "foreign" country, I have no issue, much like the Topps OPCs made in Canada with French verbiage, and in your case Spanish. BUT, we shouldn't have to become detectives to find the differences in the cards.

Additonally, there was once a poster who had the Luis Tiant puzzle pieces submitted to PSA. PSA at the time agreed and had the Composition changed to allow the 4 sections. The puzzle consisted of a piece of a face, a piece of an arm, which, when put together made a Tiant composite. He of course had all 4 sections on eBay for an exorbitant price. I thought it was ludicrous and challenged PSA's decision. After a chat with Cosetta Robbins, she agreed with me and had the 4 piece puzzle deleted from the Tiant Master Set.

It kinda gets down to are we collecting cards or mice type. YES, I am saying that in the Sportscaster case to allow such nonsense is counter-productive to sports card collecting.

Incidentally, I happen to like the Venezuelan version of Topps offerings. However, I doubt I'll find a 67 Venz Tiant anytime soon, and may not even bother. I've already been to this movie.

DBesse27

@MCMLVTopps said:

@DBesse27 said:
Yes, I’m aware that the only difference is the fine print on back. You’re entitled to your opinion that PSA calling them different cards is nonsense.

Devil’s advocate: are you saying if the image on the card front is the same, that small differences on the back should always be ignored? Because if that’s the case, my entire 1968 Venezuelan Topps set should just be lumped in with the American versions on the pop report. The only difference (besides card stock) is the tiny white text on back that says “hecho en Venezuela.”

The case I cite is only for the Sportscaster issues. The front photos are identical, as is the write up on the back. To see the difference between the two cards, you have to almost use a magnifying glass to view the back bottom to read the mice type. When the pic is different due to the printing process and it is clearly obvious that its from a "foreign" country, I have no issue, much like the Topps OPCs made in Canada with French verbiage, and in your case Spanish. BUT, we shouldn't have to become detectives to find the differences in the cards.

Additonally, there was once a poster who had the Luis Tiant puzzle pieces submitted to PSA. PSA at the time agreed and had the Composition changed to allow the 4 sections. The puzzle consisted of a piece of a face, a piece of an arm, which, when put together made a Tiant composite. He of course had all 4 sections on eBay for an exorbitant price. I thought it was ludicrous and challenged PSA's decision. After a chat with Cosetta Robbins, she agreed with me and had the 4 piece puzzle deleted from the Tiant Master Set.

It kinda gets down to are we collecting cards or mice type. YES, I am saying that in the Sportscaster case to allow such nonsense is counter-productive to sports card collecting.

Incidentally, I happen to like the Venezuelan version of Topps offerings. However, I doubt I'll find a 67 Venz Tiant anytime soon, and may not even bother. I've already been to this movie.

Not arguing with you, but a point of clarification: the 68 Venies don't have any Spanish in back except the microscopic trademark. The rest of the card back is in English.