Well maybe Golden State needed Durant.
Coinstartled
Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
0
Comments
Too many injuries. The Raptors are taking advantage (as they should) of a injury riddled Warriors team.
If you listen real close you can hear Kate Smith warming up!
Can't hide behind KD's coattails forever.sure the injuries suck but injuries happen to all sports teams. Two of these four Finals games GS started an all current/former All Star starting lineup. Maybe it is time to start giving Toronto some more credit for being on the verge of closing out this 2018-19 GS team.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Agree with the quality of the Toronto team. This will be the asterisk finals though until the Raptors can repeat.
I cannot stand GS, I would usually root for the American team over a Canadian one in NBA or NHL since I don’t really care but I want GS to lose in this series
Not saying the Raptors are not a good team.....they are. It's just that the Warriors are better "IF" they are all playing and healthy. Injury is part of the game, but GS is riddled.
No it won't be. Other than some Cleveland fan mentioning it every once in awhile no one ever calls the Warriors first championship an "asterisk finals" even though the Cavs were without Kevin Love for all 6 games and Kyrie for 5 of those 6 games.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
@DIMEMAN I've already agreed with you on the "IF" part (the other article) but injuries happen and if you want your team to win,you play on.
There's been so much talk this season on what the Warriors would look like if Durant leaves,ultimately what that means is what would the Warriors look like in the playoffs, and we're getting a glimpse into that right now. If Curry,Klay,Green & Iguodala are all healthy then they're undeniable favorite but if one goes down like KD has in this series or if multiple players have minor injuries like the rest of the team is going thru without KD then they're beatable.
That Raptors team is much better than some people give them credit for and if you're not an everyday NBA fan you probably don't know it though. Kawhi is one win away from his 2nd Finals MVP. Gasol has been on multiple All-NBA & All-Star teams and between Kawhi & Gasol they've won three DPOY awards. Lowry is a 5x All-Star and Siakam is about a year or two away from reaching superstar status. Toronto isn't some team just lucky enough to be where they are at this point,they're actually really good.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Go Raptors 🦖
Other than some Cleveland fan mentioning it every once in awhile.
Erik, just call me out by my name, I can take it!! and I don't think I have ever called it anything close to an "asterisk finals" in any thread. all I have tried to say is that the outcome almost certainly would have been different if those players were healthy.
hey, wait a minute..........................a year later when they were healthy it was different!!!! cool.
with all that said I will assume that there are legions of Golden State Warrior fans who are bemoaning the injuries and saying that it would be different if the Team was healthy. I think most of us will agree that it would be. maybe the Raptors would still be ahead because they have a very good Team, but I think the games would have been different. frankly, I'm surprised the Warriors won the game they did. hopefully, those Warrior fans who are bummed out because of the injuries remember the 2015 series.
BTW, I am Keets, OK, not some Cleveland fan!!
And I agree with you, but it's been more than just KD. If everybody else was healthy they would be winning. They were winning before KD came there.
And yes, the Raptors are a very good team. Leonard is one of the best in the NBA and Lowry is right there with him. And as you mentioned Gasol is a great center. It's a great team.
But healthy, GS is a little better. IMHO
Lmao that was not meant as a shot at you and no you did not call it an anything like an asterisk finals. That was the quote that Coin used in the comment i was replying to. All I was trying to say was if the Raptors win this series in no way would it have that type of label on it when the Warriors win over that Cavs team never had an "asterisk" label.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Now you you know how the rest of us feel about the pats.
Erik, I know we are good, just having fun. now that Coin guy, he's a different story............................
There is always a lot of perception vs reality mixed with fan bias. iirc, the majority opinion was that the Warriors would still have won it that first year even if the Cavs were at full strength. I predict the majority consensus if the Raptors win it this year will be that they wouldn't have beaten a fully healthy GS team. I personally do not agree with either of those notions.
Edited to add: so yes, I do predict everyone trying to stick an asterisk next to the championship if the Raptors prevail.
I have no dog in this fight,one one hand I'm a fan of Curry,Green & Klay threepeating and the other I'd like to see Toronto fans see their team win a title so I'm good with either outcome but if the Raptors win one more game IMO they would have earned it.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
the majority opinion was that the Warriors would still have won it that first year even if the Cavs were at full strength.
not to belabor the point but that is a crock.
to the Raptors, they have proven all they need to prove. even banged up the Warriors are pretty good and they have been "handled" so far, like in manhandled.
I agree completely. There should be no asterisk if they win, but unfortunately I foresee one. Unless....KD makes an unexpected return and Toronto still dominates them.
didn't see your edit till after. The asterisk talk will last maybe a couple of weeks,a month at most and will be long forgotten by the time next season starts.
And as we've learned with our favorite football team,this is the only thing that matters in the end:
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
@keets I certainly don't feel that way, and a lot of educated fans don't feel that way, but I think that is the perception from the general public looking at this GS team. If I am wrong, then that is a good thing.
I couldn't have said it better myself
I wonder how the Finals would turn out if it was Toronto v. Houston instead of Toronto v. GS?
I certainly don't feel that way, and a lot of educated fans don't feel that way
it was settled the following year when both Teams were at full strength. Golden State did what no one had ever done during the regular season and then Cleveland did what no one had ever done in the Finals.
what do "a lot of educated fans" have to say about that??
in fact, it was so "settled" that the Warriors made a really, really smart move and signed Kevin Durant, then the re-settled it. my biased opinion --- during that season the Warriors took the entire NBA out to the woodshed. then, in one of the greatest comebacks in Sports, the Cavs came back from being down 3-1 and beat Golden State twice in their own house to wrap it up.
that settled it.
I think we are saying the same thing and agreeing, right?
I don't have a horse in this race, but IF the Warriors lose this one they will be 1-2 in the finals WITHOUT Durant.
I was a very enthusiastic fan of GS over the past 6 years when the team started their playoff run.
2013-2014, 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 were every entertaining seasons, with GS first making the playoffs in 2013-2014, then winning the title in 2014-2015 and then winning 73 games in 2015-2016 while losing to Cleveland in the finals after leading 3-1.
When KD joined the team in 2016-2017 it was entertaining to watch GS play well and adjust to KD being on the team.
However, the good vibes of that popped up early on (for a team that had last won a title in 1975 and for about 40 years was rarely good enough to make the playoffs) started to disappear.
Success breed contempt. The sentiment about GS recently has been largely negative outside of No. Cal.
Watching GS the past couple of years, especially this year, has seen the attraction of the team wear thin.
The 24-7-365 media cycle and the multiple providers of "content" have gone into overdrive in its coverage of the team, with a large part of the coverage trending towards the negative, as negativity and conflict apparently is more saleable to the masses than is peace and harmony.
For example common themes surrounding the team include:
a. Is KD leaving or staying;
b. is there dissent on the team between players or between players and coaches/management;
c. is the team making a mistake moving from Oakland and Oracle Arena to SF and Chase Center;
d. is GS abandoning its gritty yet noble roots in Oakland and its diverse, loyal fan base simply to make more money in SF in a new arena that will be filled not by Warrior fans but by non diverse 1% Silicon Valley and SF Tech Titans who will spend games not cheering the team but instead having their heads buried in their hand held devices and attending games because "it is the thing to do and where you can go to be seen and be hip;
e. is Steph Curry overrated and simply not tough enough to play in the league because he did not grow up in the hood;
f. is GS ownership unworthy and disloyal to the league because it is will go deep into luxury tax territory to raid the league of players like KD simply because is has deep pockets;
g. GS players and coaches and management communicate there positions on non basketball matters, including politics;
h. why is it that the players on GS over the past year or so can not duplicate the level of success of the first few years; and
i. it is inappropriate and unfair that the the distance between GS and the rest of the league has shortened because people in the S.F Bay Area now deserve nothing less than a pro basketball team that year after year goes 82-0 in the regular season and 16-0 in the post season.
All of the above and more has made it less enjoyable to watch and follow the team. This year I did not attend any GS games and my viewing of GS games on TV has dropped off.
In the playoffs this year I did watch GS - Clipper games in Round 1 and GS - Houston games in round 2 with interest. The GS - Portland series and the Finals I have not tuned into very much at all.
Next year GS will be entering into a new Chapter because of its move to SF And the Chase Center. The current roster of players will likely be dismantled and the roster for 2019-2020 will significant different.
Even if KD, Curry, Thompson and Green are back next year, the remaining spots on the roster will have many new faces.
Livingston will likely be gone. Iggy may be back for the final year of his contract but his performance level will likely drop due to age and injury. Cousins may or may not be back. He showed he can still play at a high level, post injury. If he resigns for a minimum 1 year contract and comes back fully healthy next October he may surprise people and get back to his All Star level of performance. Looney has played so well this season that he likely will be offered sizeable dollars by another team that GS will not be willing to match. Jerebko will likely be gone. Jordan Bell is unreliable and may be gone. Cook is unable to defend adequately and may be gone. Bogut played well but is going to play in Austrailia next season. Who knows if he will comeback to GS in March next season. He can only give limited minutes in any event. Damian Jones showed promise before he was inured last December and was out for the year. Alfonso McKinney played well during the season and it would be good if he came back. Jacob Evans has hardly played any meaningful minutes this year.
Regarding KD, it would be interesting and quite the story if he came back for Game 5 on Monday and lit things up, leading GS to a win in Games 5, 6 and 7. That would be a heck of a story (doubt it will happen though).
It would not surprise me to see KD not play in the finals at all this year and after July 1st sign with another team and quietly leave GS for a new start.
If that happens there will be talk on sports media about whether KD could have come back and played in the Portland series or in the Finals, but chose not to do so [sort of like KW supposedly did last year with San Antonio before he was traded to Toronto]. In fact that conversation has already been raised on sports talk radio locally today.
Regardless of whether GS loses to Toronto or pulls off a comeback from being down 3-1 like Cleveland did in the 2016 Finals, the current run of success that GS has had is at its end under its current version of the team. How GS will do in 2019-2020 and beyond as it moves to SF and plays in the Chase Center is unknown. However many folks will be very happy that the current Oakland iteration of GS will never be again.
excellent post sanction
with that said, i bid everyone here adieu. i can no longer with a clear conscience post on any of these forums due to what is transpiring across the street. the stench that's emanating from the filth is suffocating me, and i need to permanently walk away just so i can breathe again. psa is a sham of a company and i'm embarrassed to admit that i ever conducted a lick of business with them. over the past year or so i've been slowly but surely liquidating my collection of graded cardboard; that process will be expedited throughout the remainder of 2019.
although i didn't always agree with everyone here, i respected each and every one of you. i had a hell of a lot of fun talking about things that, let's face it, are at a healthy distance away from actual life and death. but what does have a real, deleterious effect is an incompetent company that regularly fails to provide the service it's paid to do, thus resulting in hardship for its lifeblood to the tune of countless dollars. and even though sports talk doesn't deal with those problems, there is an obvious nexus. therefore, i'm outtie.
deuces ✌ ...........and GO BEARS
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
@SanctionII Obviously the series isn't over yet but if the Dubs do lose and Durant leaves they'll still have the best core nucleus in basketball with Curry,Klay & Green so their future still looks very bright. With some retooling around that roster they'll likely be right back here next season.
@galaxy27 I don't blame you one bit. It's been so overwhelming lately just trying stay updated thru all of this drama and it honestly gets worse everyday. Just seeing UFFDAH's thread then the first "ohoh" comments you just knew it wasn't going to be good if you kept reading and it wasn't. His situation imho has been the worst so far and it is pretty obvious this is far from over. Some major change needs to happen but who knows if/when that may happen. I hope this doesn't make you leave the hobby entirely,it won't for me,not that I buy that often anyways. I have a few small orders at PSA now for grading but once those are home I'll probably take another hobby break as well until we some change from all parties involved.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Hate to see you go @galaxy27 . I don't do cards so I have no idea what is going on there that is causing you to leave.
Hopefully things get better and you are back soon. I need help keeping @stevek in touch with reality!
Geez Galaxy, you are one of the quality posters on this forum. it has been a pleasure discussing sports with you, particularly golf.
I understand though that sometimes it is best to walk away from a troubled forum. Sure hope that we able to get together online again.
Galaxy - Just some parting words if you're still viewing. I understand your points. However if you are looking for a utopia, perfection, or whatever anyone wishes to call it, with any company out there, sorry to say it will never exist.
Practically every, if not every company that has a major footprint in any type of business, gets rocked by a scandal or major problem from time to time. Just come quick examples...car companies get rocked by recalls on a regular basis, food companies get rocked by various bacteria in their products on a regular basis, drug companies get rocked by their products sometimes causing illness or death on a regular basis. The list is numerous and never ending.
Keep in mind that companies exist for one reason and one reason only - to make money. Either in the beginning of a company or sometime later as the business grows, either the owner or some employees will get greedy and either legally or illegally, think outside the box so to speak to try to put more money in their pocket to the detriment of their customers. This isn't an aberration of a company, it is their nature.
I could do a dissertation on this, but suffice to say that the good companies out there , they somehow, some way, get thru it and overcome it...and the bad ones don't, they go out of business. The particular company that is of concern right now, in my firm opinion, will overcome this problem, learn from it, and then continue to grow and prosper.
Most everything waxes and wanes throughout life, it's the nature of life itself. That doesn't exclude our great hobby. Nor does it exclude posting on this forum or other internet forums.
The bottom line is don't be afraid to come back anytime you wish, anytime that you feel like doing it, anytime it gives you pleasure and enjoyment. But if that time never comes, then it never comes.
I certainly hope that you're not just depressed right now because you may have went all in on the Warriors. That bet isn't looking good right now, but it isn't lost yet. The best advice I could give if that's the case and you do lose, is don't chase your losses. Gambling losses are like spilled milk, nothing can be done about it...the key is to not spill any more.
Frankly, I don't care what you do...I only want you back because of possibly having another great contest thread.
I think that you did do a dissertation Steve.
I'm trying to bone up on my word skills to succeed on Jeopardy. Gotta try to make money some way since Galaxy won't be here any longer with his contests.
Sports forum without Galaxy is like church without God.
Hope the departure is temporary.
That's a pretty nice compliment.
Galaxy has to come back now.
@Dimeman I don't follow the card world either, but I saw it mentioned on another thread and checked out the situation by reading some threads here.i recommend you do too. I'd love to see a thread on the coin forum about the parallels and possible concerns for us.
instead of everyone "dancing around" whatever is going on at PSA that seems so terrible, just say what it is. I'm with Dimeman, I have no clue.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1020736/altered-cards-and-a-concerned-hobbyist
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1019062/alteration-vs-conservation-now-defined-by-pwcc
ETA: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1020696/psa-s-response-to-recent-hobby-message-boards
Anyone who only collects baseball cards is a nerd.
Anyone who only collects coins is a nerd.
Only us cool guys collect both.
@Dimeman @keets the cliff notes version is a group of card collectors on another forum found out that a very long growing list of graded cards have been altered or trimmed and many of those cards made it by PSA's graders. The majority of these altered graded cards would then be sold through PWCC,ebay's largest consignment seller for sportscards. There is even a connection with PWCC & Gary Moser,who is the guy that has been doing a large portion of the alterations. The cards range anywhere from under $50 all the way up to $28K on one of the major cards. They would purchase graded cards that through a little work could gain quite a bit of value after grading them again. That 28K card I mentioned above was originally a 1952 Bowman Stan Musial PSA 9 that sold for around 3K by a member here in this thread: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/998906/1952-bowman-stan-musial-196-psa-gem-mint-10#latest
Moser worked on that Musial PSA 9 then it was sent to PSA who through their grading process graded it a PSA 10 which PWCC sold at auction for 28K, obviously a 25K profit.
Other card trimmers have been outed as well as have other grading companies and this has been a huge black eye on this hobby right now.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
There was also a 1952 Topps Mantle that sold for 58K that was worked on in this thread that Kyle posted above:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1019062/alteration-vs-conservation-now-defined-by-pwcc/p1
edit for my comment above this one: that Musial card was purchased as a PSA 10 by a member here,he didn't sell it as a PSA 9. He was extremely unhappy to find out that it had been worked on and has been in contact with both PWCC & PSA about a return. I already made one edit to that comment and couldn't make a second without it disappearing on me.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
wow, and I thought the BS going on with coins was crazy!! I have known for a long time that paper money gets worked on and never paid much attention to cards.
Cool guys indeed!
it's a long read but if you or anyone else wants to see what this card doctor has been doing to these cards then check out this thread https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1290614
The investigators are posting before and after pics along with sales records for each card and a dollar amount gained thru each alteration. This thread is mainly just this one guy Moser's work but there numerous other threads about other scammers trimming cards there too.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
How very interesting that human greed, ego, vanity, etc. has resulted in situations where the "fair market value" of an item of property can increase or decrease significantly based upon the perception of its condition or state of preservation.
A microscopic flaw or flaws can be deemed the reason why one item is worth multiples of another all but identical item.
Further, when an item is deemed [by a person or persons who lack the skills to so opine] to be "original", "authentic", "cleaned", "restored" or a "counterfeit" that may also cause wide fluctuations in fair market value.
Humans are indeed strange; and bad guys will always seek out new ways to fleece the masses.
To me these people doing this should be tried and treated just like the investment brokers who scammed hundreds of millions from their clients.
Than> @DIMEMAN said:
They mostly got raises and promotions.
The one's I'm talking about didn't!
Absolutely terrible what happened to Durant last night. I hope it is not a torn Achilles tendon.
I think I saw on the news that it is a torn ACL.
Next game will be interesting.