Why is feedback unimportant to some sellers?
Aspie_Rocco
Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
Going through my recent purchases in the last few months I was shocked to find a sad trend in trading card feedback. 30% of sellers I have bought from seem to be unable or unwilling to leave feedback for me as a buyer. More than 10 sellers have neglected to leave feedback.
I am not a problem buyer, I leave glowing feedback immediately when items arrive, and as a seller, I leave feedback for my buyers when I Ship an item.
I have been Buying and selling coins and other collectibles for nearly a decade on eBay, and only in trading cards have I seen this trend of SLOW shipping, inaccurate ship dates, and such a large quantity of feedback negligence among sellers.
Not that feedback is required, but it is a common courtesy that is overlooked by a surprising number of card sellers. This has me considering NOT leaving any feedback as a buyer until the seller does.
Is there just a lot of apathy in this corner of the hobby kingdom?
Suffice to say those lazy sellers have permanently lost a customer.
That is my petty rant, thanks for reading.
Best wishes,
Rocco
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Comments
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So - are you really willing to pass on an item that you want for your collection merely because the seller didn't leave you feedback on a previous purchase? I thought feedback wasn't required per your earlier statement? Why is feedback on every transaction so important?
Often times sellers don't leave me feedback until I leave them feedback, so I'm not thinking withholding your feedback will help.
Steve
The Doomsday Collection
Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor | All-Time Dallas Cowboys | Bob Lilly Master | Pro Football HOF Dallas Cowboys
Most of the sellers I deal with usually leave feedback. Personally, as long as a seller ships my card to me on time, in the condition it was sold as, then I don't care if they leave feedback. I don't care if they dress a pillow up in women's clothing, and make love to it, as long as I get my card on time and in good condition.
The ebay feedback is pointless these days. I will still periodically buy from a seller with "low" feedback if I really want something, knowing if something goes wrong with the transaction, I am pretty well protected via paypal and should have no problems getting a refund.
As a buyer predominantly, I did like it when they took away the sellers ability to leave negative feedback, ONLY because I had been victim of retalitory feedback numerous times when I left legitimate negative feedback. That pissed me off to no end that some a hole would try to tarnish my name after they were the one to mess up and got called out for it! However, this also hurt good sellers who had no platform to warn other sellers about the small percentage of crap buyers who exploited this system loop hole. In the end, the feedback system should still work well for most particpants as it was originally designed (before sellers were forced to only leave positive feedback), but there are always just enough POS people who can't function with the rest of society to screw up a good thing. Heck, I remember when you didn't even have to have a transaction with someone to leave feedback. How stupid was that?
I see the same thing too as a buyer, by the way. I have hundreds of completed transactions where I paid promptly and never received feedback from those sellers. However, a long time ago I made it my personal policy to NEVER leave feedback for a seller first, unless they are one of several great sellers I have been buying from for many years OR they completely screw something up and earn a negative. My reason is that as a buyer, I complete my obligation first when I pay. At that time, any decent seller should leave positive feedback for me closing my side of the transaction. Once they deliver on their promise and complete their obligation in the transaction, I then return the favor and close their side of the deal. If they fail in some manner, I give them a chance to fix it. If that doesn't happen, then they get neutral or negative feedback from me. People justify so many different ways to go about it with this subject, but I don't think anyone could ever convince me otherwise that it should be done any other way than how I described it above. It just makes sense and followes the flow of a normal business transaction.
Final though and it's just my opinion, but why would you never buy from a seller again just because they didn't leave you some canned comment on a feedback forum that is largly ignored now anyway? If you want the item, get it at a nice price and they deliver it to you as advertised safely and promptly, what does a feedback comment do for you that not having one means you'll pass them up the next time? Quality sellers are sometimes hard to find and I would never toss one away over a non-issue. You may want to rethink your stance on that one...
I guess what irks me most about the situation is I have two accounts, one long standing with over 1,000 feedback (Aspierocco) and one newer, started a few years ago intended as a sales only account with under 200 feedback. The lower total feedback account is treated “worse” by sellers I have noticed.
From my end as a buyer or seller I see no flaws or less than respectful behaviors in the way I handle transactions.
The newer account has a much lower total feedback score as buyer and seller. When I buy from this newer account I get about 30% no feedback. My Aspierocco account usually has about 4% no feedback left by sellers.
I pay within seconds of an auctions ending, or as soon as I wake up.
I do not leave neutral and RARELY leave negative (only in 0.005% of all my eBay purchases did I leave a negative, and only for the the most egregious wrongs by a seller) and I do not recall ever getting a single negative feedback as a seller on either account.
The only thing I can think of doing that irritates some sellers is that I occasionally message them asking for closer or more clear photos (coins) or I sometimes message asking if they would consider a trade or partial payment/ trade.
Unrelated side note; Trading for listings is allowed and approved by eBay. To do so, one mails payment (trade item) for a listing to the seller, then the seller ships the eBay purchase. Partial Ebay payment or cash added by the buyer is allowed. This scenario was crafted by eBay and has resulted in several happyful trade transactions between a few other eBay sellers and myself.
With coin collectors and dealers there is an attitude held by some that lower end (cost) transactions bring a higher possibility of problems. I have personally noticed that transactions over $200 seem to have far fewer hiccups than transactions under $50, with the space between as a grey area.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Maybe first time buyers?
eBay ruined their buyer feedback system more than 10 years ago when they made it impossible to leave anything but positive feedback for a buyer... In the past year, I've had a dozen buyers buy a card, then not pay (and never even communicate)... And, I can't leave them negative feedback? What's the point of even having the system?
Bottom line is, sellers' feedback ratings are important for buyers to use to determine if they want to do business with that particular seller... But, buyers' feedback ratings are the most irrelevant thing on the internet.
DesertIceSports.Com
Yes. I am willing to pass on an item from the seller who either cannot be bothered to leave feedback or ship in a timely fashion. For most items I seek there is plenty of offerings available and spending an extra $.25 to $25 with someone who can have the courtesy to leave feedback is a non-issue.
It is not required but it is appreciated.
That is a good point and on the transactions I am here complaining about I have already left positive feedback the day that item arrived or within a week at the longest.
I totally agree with this statement and the problems you’ve encountered speak to the concepts of the lower the price the higher the problems. I’ve experienced similar issues with lower-cost coins that I sell especially under the $20 range. These problems buyers are probably the same people who slam on their brakes in the freeway or obstruct traffic because they made a mistake while driving, instead of just staying committed and taking the next exit or turn. Why not just pay the few dollars for the auction won (or drive time for the driver reference).
I have paid up when I accidentally bid on a duplicate or auction.
I stopped selling on Amazon years ago when the return abuse started to accelerate.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
In the last year or two I think I’ve neglected feedback on eBay completely, both as a buyer and a seller. Not maliciously, but I forget it’s even a thing. And then by the time I get the reminders from eBay, I honestly can’t be bothered to take the time to catch up on dozens of transactions. Maybe I’m going to hell for this, but if so I’m ok with it.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
"Maybe I’m going to hell for this, but if so I’m ok with it."
When I picture hell, I see a giant room full of 1000 iPads, all running the eBay mobile app.
DesertIceSports.Com
Buyers are 100X worse at caring to leave feedback.
Nick is right. I was going to chime in and say. All the talk about sellers not leaving FB ...... several months ago I sold 60 items one weekend. Left FB immediately upon payment. Everything ships within 1 business day, and packaged perfectly. How many FB did I get in return? 8! So I've had it. I don't bother with it anymore. I just stipulate that feedback is appreciated and automatically reciprocated in my listings. I have enough feedback, so I don't care. Lazy ass buyers as well.
As a seller, I only leave feedback first when the buyer has a higher feedback total than me. On the other hand, if the buyer has less than me, I won't leave feedback till I receive it from them. I grew tired of not receiving feedback from lesser totalled buyers.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
As a seller, I will leave feedback when the buyer pays for the item. As a buyer, I will leave feedback if the seller does for me first. It really doesn't bother me if I don't get feedback though - as long as I get what was advertised.
As a seller on Ebay for 19 yrs, this is the reason I no longer leave feedback to buyers. Only if they leave me feedback first, then I immediately leave feedback for them. Got tired of giving feedback when only 30% of the buyers would leave feedback for me. Buyers are just plain lazy now in the smart phone era.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
That's ridiculous. Once the seller pays he has completed his end of the transaction, and should be awarded positive feedback. Period.
Here are my stats:
5,989 feedback left
4,523 feedback received
Who else remembers the late 90s on eBay when it was the Wild Wild West for feedback? Anyone could leave anyone else positive or negative feedback whether a transaction was actually done or not. I remember someone messing with me once to leave me a neg and I had never actually done a transaction with them before, they only targeted me because of a chat board we were both on. I think I ended up creating close to 2 dozen eBay accounts during that time to leave him 2 dozen negative feedbacks.
Feedback on eBay as a buyer hasn't mattered in close to what 15 years now since sellers can no longer leave a neg for a shitty buyer.
EDIT: My eBay account goes back to Dec. 12th, 1997. Anyone here have an account on eBay older than mine?
Because there were too many sellers who would "hold feedback hostage" and issue "retaliatory feedback" if the buyer tried to leave a neg to a seller (which most of the time was justified). I was a victim of that a few times myself so frankly I'm GLAD that sellers cannot do any of that retaliatory/hold hostage feedback garbage anymore.
DISCLAIMER: I very seldom sell anything....I'm only a buyer on Ebay, so yes I am biased. Take all this as you will.
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
I'm a month later. I remember people leaving feedback for tech support.
Everything I said is 100% correct. As with others are saying, 'feedback doesn't matter as a buyer.' Lesson learned.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Funny I just received a message the other day from a buyer saying 'HE LOVED THE CARD', and asked if I had anymore of said player.'
He never bothered to leave any feedback
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Most of us are guilty of doing something that has lead to the feedback system tanking. In the end, as noted, buyers really don't need feedback and It is becoming less of a need for sellers too, with all the protection there is on transactions.
I still participate in the system (with the exceptions noted in my first post) because I feel it is part of the transaction, but obviously not everyone feels the same. I started selling more recently and have experienced what everyone is saying as well. I leave feeback for buyer once they pay, I then ship promptly and well protected. Buyer leaves me nothing a good percentage of the time. Still, I don't care. That is no reason to withhold it from the next guy. However, I started looking at the "feedback left for others" stats for buyers and tried it out. I only left feedback for those people who seemed to leave it for sellers most of the time. I still don't have a 100% hit rate. People are just unreliable in general I guess.
There is one thing I do as a buyer that I sometimes feel a little guilty about, especially because I tend to buy multiple items from a lot of sellers. I will only leave 1 feedback for each transaction. The reason is that the unique number only increases by 1, regardless of how many feedback are left. Sometimes I get 15 feedback from a seller for the items I won. I will always leave tyhem one in return, but only one. Leaving feedback for the other items is a time suck and doesn't improve their score.
Sorry, but I still can't grasp the fact that somoene would actually refuse to buy from a seller or pay MORE from a different seller because of feedback not being left though. That is a new one for me. Cutting off your nose to spite your face there...
I agree that buyers are worse at leaving feedback. I probably get 75% response...maybe less as a seller. I ship same or next day and make sure cards are safe and secure even if I have to lose a little on shipping. Being a seller, I will not hold feedback hostage. When the seller wins and auction or hits the BIN button and pays, I print a packing slip and a label and leave feedback. They have held up their end of the deal. That's how I want it as a buyer and even if they don't reciprocate with feedback, I know I have done what's right.
Perhaps you should have read beyond the first sentence of my post... I was saying that sellers should be able to leave negative feedback for a buyer who doesn't pay... The fact that people who do nothing but buy on eBay can't possibly have anything other than 100% positive feedback, even if they've refused to pay for 30 items in the past year, is utterly insane... For this reason, the buyer feedback system is completely and entirely useless, and this is why so many sellers don't bother to leave feedback at all.
DesertIceSports.Com
As a buyer, I hear ya.
I get that at times too.
On the cool side - I just hit 1000!
love all of the meso-level analysis going on. my advice would be to preserve years of your life by not worrying about how others handle their end of the bargain. as a general rule, most will duck under your bar of expectations. so do the right thing and move on. if someone buys something from me, i immediately leave feedback. if i buy something from someone else, i immediately leave feedback once i bust the package open and see that everything is copacetic. and unless something unforeseen arises from that point forward, i never give that person a second thought.
As a seller, I immediately leave feedback when buyer pays promptly. However, if I have to open a claim for non-payment and then the buyer pays I do not leave any feedback. As a buyer, I always leave feedback when my purchase arrives as advertised. The only rare exception I have is if I get gouged on shipping costs (popular company that sells high end cards who I will not name). Then I never leave feedback. I am aware of their shipping costs before I make the purchase, but i don't agree with them. I won't leave neutral or negative feedback in that situation but I will refuse to leave positive. Just my opinion.
From my last 111 sales I've left 111 feedback and I've gotten back 50.
From my last 194 sales I've left 194 feedback and I've gotten back 100.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
i find it extremely difficult to get buyers to leave me feedback, it angers me since I ship the next business day after getting paid and I offer free shipping. I refuse to leave these buyers feedback until they leave me feedback first, screw ‘em I don’t care. As a BUYER once I receive the item I leave feedback immediately
Not older but still in the 90's. Jan 6, 1999. Where did those 20 years go? LOL.
yawn......feedback
He just keeps coming back......
Yes, June 29, 1996. It was known as Auction Web when I signed up if I'm not mistaken:
Steve
The Doomsday Collection
Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor | All-Time Dallas Cowboys | Bob Lilly Master | Pro Football HOF Dallas Cowboys
Good memory, Steve
I just bought a high dollar card a few days ago and there was a crack in the corner of the case, I asked the seller why the damaged case wasn't in the description, he said he didn't want to confuse anybody and never offered to take money off for the damaged case, he just said sorry and that was it. it seems like sellers don't worry about negative feedback anymore either
I disagree with the blanket statement that buyer feedback does not matter.
There are plenty of cases where a seller can leave “ negative” buyer feedback. The feedback itself may be positive but the wording can explain a lot about a bad buyer.
In addition, and more importantly I have noticed a pattern of very low feedback buyers say 0 to 9, particularly with newer accounts that are scammers who will file a fraud claim saying someone else hacked their account for the purchase. On some of my more recent listings I neglected to exclude buyers with low feedback, and over the holidays two items valued over $200 each were bought by low feedback buyers who then claimed their purchase was fraudulent. Fortunately seller protection covered me in both cases as I had fulfilled my obligation and sent to the proper address is listed eBay chose to refund those accounts but I kept my money as well. Unfortunately I also left them positive feedback when I shipped.
So feedback as a buyer can matter especially for those with low feedback in new accounts.
Also, I do not see it as cutting of my nose to spite my face, in not buying from those unwilling to leave feedback. There are plenty of sellers who will extend the professional etiquette of feedback. Do you continue patronize a business with poor customer service, when other options are plentiful?
I greatly Appreciate all the responses as the various opinions provide much food for thought, and offer points of view I had not previously considered.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
If a seller files a claim against a non paying buyer, then it is only a matter of time before that buyer is suspended. I do not know the allowable number of times before they are NARU'd, but 30 would never happen if all of those were filed by the sellers properly, unless it was all in a very short period of time. That is how buyers are held accountable. What can't be policed well are buyers returning things for no good reason or claiming they didn't get what was sent to them.
I don't typically buy things that are readily available with many sellers. I look for the unique and different, so yes I will buy again from a seller who ignores the feedback system and not leaving feedback is nowhere close to poor customer service. If a seller wrongs me in any way, that is where I will sever ties. That would include doing a crap job of packing a delicate item, sending something different than described or lying about an item in the description. I am not doing this for feedback, I am doing this because I want the items I am buying. I couldn't care any less about feedback as a buyer other than I will not "reward" a seller who doesn't bother to leave feedback for me, or better yet I am rewarding the sellers who follow the rules as I see them.
I thought this thread was going to be about sellers who don't bother requesting corrections on unintentional negs. I actually see that a fair bit now that f/b doesn't carry the weight that it once did with regard to fees/seller status.
Always thought it made the most sense to set up automatic feedback for buyers to save time.
My God!!! Stop making sense around here....it confuses people!
It seems a wee bit odd to be monitoring each and every purchase to keep track of which sellers don't leave you feedback. I believe buyers and sellers have 60 days to leave feedback. Will you wait the full 60 days to buy again from a seller who hasn't yet given you feedback or do you write them off as a miscreant after a fixed number days after the sale? As a seller are you blocking buyers who do not leave feedback, or does your personal choice of not wanting to deal with miscreants not apply when they are giving you money? Do you read every feedback received? Does it bother you when you notice a seller leaving the same feedback for everyone, and won't take the time to specifically detail how you in particular excelled as a buyer?
Yes I am odd, probably from the Aspie aspect of my life. Details can be very important or totally irrelevant, but patterns tend to get noticed.
If after 3 weeks without feedback for a seller I give up and write them off.
No I do not wait to see about future purchases.
I need only 13 coins (extremely hard to find) to complete my set, for those I might make an exception, but I doubt it.
I do not NEED anything else off eBay that I cannot buy from someone or somewhere else. Since cards are only a casual side collection, it does not matter at all to me to avoid some sellers.
As for being a seller, to customers who do not leave feedback, I handle it in the following way, (I sell Buy it now almost exclusively) if they pay full price and no feedback... meh, NBFD. If they offer way below my ask or lowball, and I accept the offer, and find they cannot leave feedback after 2-3 transactions, yes I will block them. Asking for a 20-40% discount and then refusing to leave feedback, they get blocked. Good manners do not cost anything.
I do not NEED their money and damn sure will not offer them steep discounts again. I buy and sell as a hobby, not as an exclusive income.
Yes I read every feedback I get, and I tend to switch up the feedback I leave for others, custom tailored to the type of customers I get. Repeat buyers get a lot of love and free gifts, new customers get a pleasant but standard feedback comment.
No it does not bother me when sellers leave the same feedback for everyone. At least they make the effort.
I am aware that I have a unique set of morals and personal rules in life and for interacting with others. I believe in common decency, mutual respect, customer service, and common courtesy. I believe in what I perceive to be logical or rational rules and guidelines for personal conduct-communication-interactions.
This discussion topic has revealed grey areas to me, and will possibly foster some adjustments to my attitude on the subject of feedback.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
@Aspie_Rocco - Well said.
I am just a buyer on Ebay, I do not sell, but after I receive my card or cards, the first thing I do is leave feedback. It's just good business practice. That's just me.
Poke your finger in someone's mouth while they are yawning to establish dominance....
Kris
My 1971 Topps adventure - Davis Men in Black
I would politely ask, what's most important to you as a buyer - good service and accuracy for the item you purchase & receive or affirmation that you are a swell buyer?
If affirmation is what you are after, do you purchase anything from Amazon? If you have purchased from Amazon, that must drive you nuts as there is no feedback system in place for sellers to affirm swell buyers.
With that said, I leave feedback for all Ebay buyers as it is easy to automate leaving feedback on Ebay. Not to mention, its courtesy and truly completes the buying cycle. That's me though.
I wouldn't let it dictate whether I purchased from that person again as we can find reasons all day long for not doing something or another. Sometimes though, you just have to breathe and let it go and appreciate the little things in life (like good service and accuracy in listings)
Website
Shopify Store
Ebay Store
I always leave immediate feedback for the buyer when payment is made. The way I see it, that even though the buyer of course sees the fact that they made payment, in my view the immediate feedback from me signifies to the buyer that I the seller received the order and payment, and that it is being processed for shipment.
Amazon feedback is a joke compared to Ebay. I receive around 40% feedback on Ebay. On Amazon it's well less than 5% and that's not unusual for a seller.
Some Amazon sellers receive a higher percentage than 5%, but most if not all of them solicit for feedback after the sale. I don't play that game. If a buyer wants to leave feedback, fine...if not, then that's fine to.
I could do a dissertation about selling on Amazon. Suffice to say that it's a completely different ballgame versus selling on Ebay.
Amazon has a seller forum and they allow harsh criticism about itself. It's actually quite informative, and if anyone is ever interested in selling on Amazon, I highly recommend spending a lot of time reading the various posts on that forum. Also read and know all of the Amazon rules, and I do mean all, before you list your first item. Don't try to think outside the box with Amazon, or think that you don't have to follow some of their stringent rules...they will ban you quickly without batting an eye. And a ban on Amazon is permanent.
Well, I must say, this thread has a little bit of everything. The only thing missing is the hot dog vendor.