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Question for Ebay coins sellers, particularly of higher dollar coins.
Coinstartled
Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
Have you changed your return policy as Paypal will no longer refund the initial transaction fee on a return?
Don't think i want to get whacked for $60 plus two way shipping on a $2000 Saint.
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No, because there's almost no way to avoid a chargeback. I also get a discount for accepting free returns so it should work out.
Hmmmm. The discount is so small that 1 big return would ruin your opinion! From what I gather you don't sell 4-5 figure coins so I guess that would account for your opinion. Has anyone questioned ebay about restocking fees lately?
most no way to avoid a chargeback. I also get a discount for accepting free returns so it should work out.
It's statistical. It doesn't matter if you sell $10 coins or $100,000 coins. 0.6% is 0.6%. Against 3% PayPal fees. If I sell $1000 coins, I save $6 on fees on each coin I sell. If one gets returned, it costs me $30. Unless I get more than 1 in 5 returned...
The only caveat is $5000 coins and up where the fees are capped at $250. But, again, every $5000 coin (or higher) sold saves me about $25 in fees. A $10k returned coin costs $300 in PayPal fees. So, even if you sell all $10k coins or higher, you have to have a return rate of more than 1 out of 12 sales.
My returns run at about 1 in 400. It's a no-brainer.
Exactly.......A few months ago, Paypal allowed a chargeback on a coin I had sold for $3500 over a year earlier. It is folly to think your return policy means anything on eBay.
Exactly. Some cards will allow chargebacks as long as 18 months later. It happened to an eBay dealer friend of mine - not coins. You have to find a way to make the cost structure work or find a different payment method.
Note: I'm not saying I like it. I'm just saying it's a fact of life with PayPal and most Credit Card payments. It's actually not eBay, it's the payment method. eBay returns are actually more restrictive than most payment processing firms.
For coins, that policy is not tenable at all.
What was the story with the chargeback? Did you get the coin back?
It's the downside (from the seller side) of credit card payments.
Unfortunately, it's also one of the reasons that buyers love to use credit cards. It provides the buyer guarantees.
My return rate is probably is at least as good as yours(4 or 5 in the last 2 years?). I'll just wait to see what your reaction is down the road with all the changes!
Not 2 weeks after Paypal was FORCED to return $2,495 they stole from me via a prior chargeback case, Paypal attempted to steal $3,400 from me from a sale that was completed over 1 year earlier via chargeback, I again contacted NBC and NBC again FORCED Paypal to return the money back to me:
Case ID: PP-D-9781823
The buyer has filed a case with their financial institution for a payment of $3,387.44 you received on May 29, 2017. We've opened a case on Apr 22, 2018 so that we can collect more info and resolve this with the buyer's financial institution. Learn more
Case detailsView case history
Buyer information
Michael Carroll
bigmaccheese83@gmail.com
Invoice ID
INV2-AUEP-E8KB-J32Q-4A9D
Transaction amount
$3,400.00
Transaction ID
5JW28902YM659442R
Disputed amount
$3,387.44
Dispute reason
More Information Needed
Your responses
Date of submission
Apr 26, 2018
Tracking
USPS 23150610000029629743
I know that credit card purchases can be contested, even up to 18 months after a purchase, but I thought Ebay limited returns unless there was fraud or some other reason related to product defectiveness?
I recently, bought an ICG graded coin on Ebay (bad mistake), paid double what it was worth and after two months decided I wanted to return it. When I went to Ebay to see about returning it, the window had closed for returns (per Ebays site).
Does a buyer have to declare the return is fraud, or just for any reason willy-nilly?
That's unreal, and from a business point of veiw,unacceptable.I don't want to sound dumb but what is "NBC"?
In southern California, our local NBC news station has '4 on your side'. I filled out an on-line form describing the crime Paypal had allowed to happen to me.
https://nbclosangeles.com/consumer-form/?s=1
They contacted me and contacted Paypal and forced them to return the money they had taken from me. I had sent them a video proving the buyer had commited mail fraud:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jXahDW3_IwQ
Glad that you beat it, Arizona.
Two chargebacks in 15 years and one was from a guy I had already 100% refunded. Took a few more phone calls than necessary to clear that up.
Wow! That’s a great idea! While I don’t sell much on eBay (so I’ve never had a return), I never would have thought of videoing me opening the return package, just in case the coin was not actually enclosed. Nice to know “I learn something every day.” Thanks.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Significantly Not As Described will typically get it done on ebay.
But, again, it doesn't matter what ebay does. The payment processor sets the terms that matter. Even if the ebay window is closed PayPal, Visa etc can force a return on a chargeback. That's probably why Heritage and Stacks limit the amount you can charge and why GC is encouraging electronic back transfers
Again, I don't like it, but the only option is not to take credit card payments. Refusing PayPal or CCs could be suicidal. I certainly wouldn't buy from anyone other than Apmex or Heritage or the like if the terms were cash only, no returns
I prefer to do big ticket material at shows only. They pay cash, sight seen transactions final. It costs me 15 pct variable selling expense to sell on eBay (30 avg sales margin make it work) forcing higher margin plus risks of quirky buyers. Big ticket coins around $2000 can normally force tight margins especially if something like common $20 Saints. I don’t want the hassle of a return or get ripped by some thief taking advantage of the system.
I had a return on a $500 item buyer cited personal crises. I have a no question asked 14 day return policy. I had already removed money from pp acct bc needed it for another project. Blindsided by the return (not had one in over a year) I promptly refunded via pp from my bank acct but eBay sent him e check taking a few days clear on his end. Irritating emails during that period from him like a bill collector just told him “sorry I have no control over eBay policy.” Nor can I predict returns. Stressful experience - nervous if would get the return back and then the nasty surprise with the e check. A couple of weeks later the coin after being relisted sold for $25 less to a solid buyer no problem.
At a recent show bought a nice (Gem Blazer) 1904 $20 NGC 65 Lib from walk up seller for bid $2200 seeing as nice pickup take home. A couple hours later Later flipped in show to vest pocket trader friend $2500. With eBay / PayPal fees could not have done that on eBay, let alone the potential hassle of a return. Shortly later paid the bourse chairman $150 for my table at next show.