Spanish coins found at Lake Powell, Utah
WillieBoyd2
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Ancient mystery or a hoax? Archaeologists investigate rare find at Lake Powell
From KSL TV, Salt Lake City, Utah:
A hiker in southern Utah has found what appear to be old Spanish coins possibly dating back to the time of the conquistadors and perhaps even earlier, long before the voyages of Columbus.
The big question the National Park Service is trying to answer is: If they’re real, what are they doing in southern Utah?
"This is very exciting," said park service archaeologist Brian Harmon. "I’ve never seen anything like this in my career."
The mystery began last September when a hiker from Colorado made the discovery near the Halls Crossing Marina on Lake Powell. Park officials are keeping the exact location secret because of the possibility there are other undiscovered artifacts in the area. They’ve been keeping the two coins under wraps, too — deliberately not publicizing the find — because they aren’t sure yet what to make of it.
...
The Colorado man’s research brought him to a startling conclusion. He told the park service that he believes the larger one matches coins from the 1660s and the smaller one matches coins from the 1290s, two full centuries before Columbus. With that realization, he decided to turn them over to the park service.
KSL TV Article (with photograph of the coins)
https://www.ksl.com/article/46535893/ancient-mystery-or-a-hoax-archeologists-investigate-rare-find-at-lake-powell
John Hollenhorst, KSL TV
One coin reverse appears to be a Spain 16 Maravedis copper coin of Philip IV (1621-1665) dated 166(?).
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Comments
I wonder why they are puzzled. The map they sell in all the marinas tell how the conquistadors crossed the Colorado River and they know where they did. They crossed just south of Halls Crossing and would have continued on their way via where the coins were found. Lake Powell covers the Colorado River now in that area thanks to damming the river.
They were in search of the cities of gold that had been rumored to exist. Looters, all of them.
bob
Interesting. Here's the coins.
Of course, Spaniards were in the region since the early 1500s and as the article says, they could have been traded up from anywhere in Mexico. I don't know if a coin from 1290s would still be circulating, but it wouldn't surprise me. The presence of modern trash tells me that it might be a popular camping spot, and a good spot for camping today was probably a good spot for a camp hundreds of years ago too. Maybe they'll find something else there that provides context.
Interesting read.
The first historical record of any Spanish presence in that area was in 1776. The Domingues-Escalante party. They crossed the Colorado River somewhere North of Lee's Ferry, Utah. The earliest known "conquistador" penetration into what is now the United States was in 1540-42. The Coronado expedition. The nearest they ever got to the crossing at Lee's Ferry was probably somewhere around what is now Gallup, New Mexico. No where close. They ended up in Kansas.
Either way, it's hard to understand why any of those early explorers would have taken any coins with them on their trips. It's not like there were any Stop-N-Gos along the way for them to drop into for snacks or picnic supplies. Besides, the whole motive behind their roving around was the search for money. So logically it's fair to assume they didn't have any money to begin with.
Why would they spend years running around some God forsaken wilderness infested with murderous savages and wild animals looking for money if they already had pocket change?
This whole thing doesn't add up.
The only possible reason(s) for the Spanish to carry copper coins into this area that I can think of would be as trinkets for trade for necessities or to fabricate into necessities.
With that said, it's probably more likely that these were planted or accidentally lost.
I examined and debunked the Death Valley treasure in 1999, a hoard of coins and artifacts discovered there and purporting to have been "lost" in 1850. It included a gold dollar which conveniently had it's date scratched off. There was just enough detail left to determine that it was an 1853, so, no, this chest was recently planted, not lost in 1850. Coin World ran an article about it at the time. The discoverer has since claimed that he switched the $1 and 1834 $5 originally found but everything else, including his story, is genuine. There are multiple problems with the authenticity of many of the other artifacts found.
The coins in this hoard were worth about $1000-$2000 and there was nothing particularly nice present. Better pieces tended to be damaged or cleaned. They looked a lot more like the circulated "stuff" one sees in cases at Sunday coin shows than a cross section of what I would expect to see in circulation circa 1850. The only thing missing were the white stapled 2x2s. However, someone still paid a couple of thousand dollars to perpetrate this hoax.
The two corroded Spanish coins are worth maybe $25-$50, with thousands and thousands more old/ancient coins being found in Europe by metal detectors every year. Many European auctions sell this type of stuff in large lots at cheap prices. Drop a couple here and there and you can really cause a stir.
https://deathvalley.com/index.php/stories/death-valley-gold/92-by-leroy-johnson?showall=1
https://latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-jan-31-mn-3521-story.html
https://deathvalley.com/index.php/stories/death-valley-gold/87-submitted-anonymously?showall=1
People exploring or crossing desert areas most certainly had money with them. not for use along the way, but rather for use when they returned to some form of frontier civilization.
Nevertheless, I'm not too keen on the pictures, looks somewhat dicey.
I saw a different photo of the coins along with the one shown here. They seemed very thin and not like the weight a coin like these should have. It could easily be from corrosion and lost surface area. They didn't look right to me, something more like on a belly dancers belt. I think this story is for attention or as stated a clever hoax. The coins were found just lying on the ground in an area that is popular with tourists.
Other view.
Allmost vacation time.
I'm no expert, but it doesn't look right to me !!!
Yup....About time for someone to "find" a monster diamond at the Arkansas mine...in time for vacationers.
The coins look genuine but they are just not very valuable. Most likely European metal detector finds, dropped by a tourist.
If more of these finds were documented at other locations in the West, especially along with other period artifacts, that would be pretty convincing evidence that they came from early explorers rather than tourists from the last few decades.
Authenticating the coins would be a good first step.
There would be nothing unusual about finding them on the surface in this region. I have seen/found lots of Anasazi stuff (tools, flakes) laying on the surface in that area, and that was from a thousand years ago. (I leave it where it is).
There would also be nothing particularly unusual finding something in a place frequented by tourists. That area is all vertical cliffs. There are only so many places you can access the river. People can only go today where they could only go hundreds of years ago. It could have washed in from somewhere else too.
I wouldn't see anything particularly unusual about it being from actual Spaniards either. They were all over that area. They were in the San Luis valley in Colorado in 1593. Some of the officially recorded early expeditions are only known because somebody else wrote them down later. It would not surprise me that a previously unknown "expedition" was in this area. The Spaniards were obsessed with the "lost cities of gold".
There was also a vast, elaborate, well-established trade network throughout the region. The Spaniards saw economic opportunity and adapted their patterns and customs to take advantage of it. I see nothing unusual about Spanish coins being with Native Americans in this area by the late 1600s, which seems to be the rough date of at least one of the coins.
I can't think of a reason why somebody would deliberately "salt" this spot with Spanish coins, real or otherwise, other than just to screw with people. I can certainly understand the park service keeping the location a secret, otherwise every yahoo with a boat would be in there looking for something to loot. It will be interesting to see what the end story is with these.
They found old Spanish elongates?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I think I'm going to go out to my backyard and look for Viking "Vinland" coins!
That's about as many coins as they've found on Oak Island.
Now if you were to fly over Oak Island and drop a few corroded 1400s-1500s French coins in the Money Pit area, what reaction would we get when Gary turned them up with his metal detector?
It's a Bobby Dazzler! Top Pocket Find!
Two coins? No. In other news, Utah has now been proven to be the fraud capital of the US.
https://ksl.com/article/46541729/does-utah-deserve-the-title-fraud-capital-of-the-united-states
It could be true, but I lean on the skeptical side 98%.
If I were to point hardest point to get to in the entire present-day US, prior to roads being built, I would pick this spot. The moral of the story is - Don't bring your coin collection on boat trips on Lake Powell.
Possibly, someone involved in "The Great American Coin Hunt" got real creative.
"Hard to get to" is relative. There were about as many people living in the Four Corners area 800-1000 years ago as there are today.
People seed gold nuggets, people seed coins.
What makes the most sense is that someone in modern times put the coins there.
People do weird things.
It's worth mentioning that copper was a valuable trade good among all the first peoples and all Europeans knew this and used it to best advantage.
They didn't have Spanish coins.
My point seems hard to make. There were people all over that area for thousands of years, there was a vast trade network, and it wasn't "hard to get to". There's no reason at this point to rule out being dropped there 300 years ago.
Authentication first. Can anybody ID these "coins"?
Go to the internet, order a buncha cheap ancient coins.
Go to National Parks, Monuments, Major Attractions where tons of people go every day.
Seed the ancient coins in those places.
Sit back and wait for the fun and SPECULATION to kick in
Most all of the traditional old history books have it dead wrong about when Europeans discovered America.
Could have be purchases made amongst themselves. If true.
100% Positive BST transactions
Could have also been a purchase by a collector on his Western trip, lost accidentally while sitting along the Colorado River.
I have had to carry coins that I bought on vacations rather than leave them in the car, which was more likely to be robbed in the parking area. Fortunately, I never lost anything, but it could happen.