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Does pcgs not care...
SilverEagle420
Posts: 255 ✭✭✭
Unless you send in 100 coins at a time,,,, I dont care how toned it is, this mercury is absolutely not an ms 67 if mine is only a 58,, 
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I don't even know where to begin on this post, so I will let others do the heavy lifting.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
At least learn how to grade before making absurd accusations. Those coins are miles apart from each other and I agree with what pcgs called them.
My guess is a lot of what looks like small dings or hits on the 67 are just splotchy toning.
a 1945 merc dime is a $65 coin which is worth a mere $30 bucks more than a 66. Why do you think it is not a 67? Toning breaks do not count as marks.
Quite the sword to be brandishing, based on your other posts it sounds like you have a lot to learn about grading.
Apples/Oranges
I'm mainly talking about the scraped up letters and smashed bands on the 67
And I never said I didn't have alot to learn, that's why I ask questions,,,,,
Not seeing scraped up letters.
The bands are deficient because of worn dies. A 1945 merc with full bands is practically a unicorn.
I suggest you find ways to ask questions that are less accusatory in nature and more inquisitive.
Are the photos of the 1916 supposed to be a comparable coin?
Your 16 has numerous small contact marks, and probably does have light wear on the high points. Even without the latter wear, IMO the coin probably wouldn’t grade higher than 62 due to the marks. It’s still a decent coin you should be happy with. Just don’t fool yourself into believing it’s some kind of gem.
Meanwhile the 45 looks really clean; like those above suggest, those are toning breaks and not contact marks. Its presentation is vastly different than the 16.
Just like honey badgers
My 1916 graded at a 58,, that's why I'm trying to figure out where I went wrong on it, cause I figured like you just said I'd get a 62-63 and if it wasnt for one lil nick I woulda got an fb,, but that ms 67 on the reverse has flattened horizontal and vertical bands, the r on America has taken a hit from what I can see and there are several obverse scratches on the devices,, I'm not saying it isnt a beautiful coin, jus saying with all that it got a 67, why was mine only a 58,, that's my main question, cause if I compare them unbiased they both have issues, jus trying to figure if they gave em that much jus for the toning or what
The 45 reverse has a presentable strike. Remember that this is the issue where full bands are extremely rare. It also seems to me that a Merc can have clear weakness in the fasces and peripheral lettering and still grade as 67. Also on the 45, those obverse scratches may in fact merely be disruptions in the toning.
I'm surprised that they apparently gave the '45 a significant bump for toning. Without it, my guess would be more like 64, though an in hand inspection might be more revelatory
An unnecessarily adversarial subject line and tone directed at our host.
Even if the 1916 were uncirculated - and I don’t think it is - due to the marks, I couldn’t see a grade better than MS61. So in my opinion, thinking it would grade 62-63 was wishful thinking. The fact that it’s nearly FB is immaterial.
I’m guessing that most of what you think are flaws on the 1945, are actually breaks in the toning. However, even if you’re correct and the coin didn’t deserve a 67, that doesn't mean your coin was under-graded.
Lastly, if you read your opening post, you should see that you didn’t ask any questions. Instead, you made a statement, and it was one that a number of us disagree with.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes it's a 58 to.
If the 45 had a reasonable price on it I would buy it in a second. Your 16, I think, was lucky to get a 58 grade. It looks like a 55 all day long to me.
In my opinion PCGS does a overall good job when it comes to grading Mercury Dimes even when they get a submission from a little guy like me.
Here is a 66FB coin in PCGS plastic that I submitted.
.
Ken
I think it was more that ONE nick that prevented you getting an FB.
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The "smashed bands" aren't "smashed". They are simply not fully struck, as is common on the 1945s.
If it makes you feel any better, I wouldn't get to 67 on the 1945 either. But it is waaaay better than your banged up 58. I'm surprised yours didn't 55. Usually 58s have better eye appeal.
And, if you want to avoid this thread getting deleted and/or yourself getting a warning or suspension, you might reconsider your OP. Why would you bash PCGS, our beloved host, for an issue that is at least partly (as you admit) rooted in your grading ignorance?
I would also point out - because I feel the need to waste even more time on this - that some of what you are seeing on the 67 coin is due to the reverse being at least partially out of focus. I also think some of those marks may be on the holder not the coin.
If this was a guess the grade I would think most of the guesses on the 1916 would have been split between 55 and 58. Roger would be at 45 and the Cpt at 53
The 45 would have had guesses of 65 through 67.
With our hosts having these in hand compared to the less then idea pics I’ll go with PCGS.
The 1916 is not a MS coin. Actually I think you are better off with this at a 58 rather then a 61. Did you buy his as a 58? It’s not a blue label so it’s not recent.
The the OP you really should edit the title as suggested.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
That weak strike on the 1945 is the answer to your question.
You are looking at apples and oranges.
You need to be comparing your 1916P with other 1916P Mercs
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White gaps in the toning are not the same thing as bag marks.
I have sold many Mercury dimes that looked better than yours for junk silver.
I don't know if this helps, but I'd say the 1945 gets a one grade bump up for the beautiful toning.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
No disrespect to you, but why complain? Why submit your coins st all? Apparently you have much more confidence in your own ability to grade coins than pcgs so maybe you should endorse your very own grades.
I’ll put my trust in PCGS.
Have a great day😊
Sometimes you will get some harsh comments here.
Ask questions a little softer...
As already stated the 1945 dime was weakly struck on reverse and dies were quite worn. I have a 1945 in pcgs 67 that looks like it has wear like a 58, but it is uncirculated. The dies gave it a mushy look and almost no bands at all. No bag marks on devices or fields though.
This 1945 is better struck, but a 65..It has very nice bands for a 1945. Most 1945s dont come as fully struck on reverse as this one.
Neither of these have all the hits on them like your 1916. Thats what makes them ms.
Hang in there, a lot goes into coin grading, buy some books, read alot on this board, Use coinfacts, and photograde and you will learn.
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Ditto
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Here is a Raw 16P to compare to. Won on Ebay last week for 15 bucks. A 63 or possibly a 64 coin with shaky Full Bands.
.
Ken
Nice 67!
I'm going to stir the pot. IMO, the OP's coin was net graded down to AU-58 because its obverse (the important side) looks like it was dragged down a gravel road! However, while its obverse is extremely beat-up, the amount of rub on it is virtually non-existent. I've seen coins with more rub on them graded "Gem Uncirculated!"
Really!! Click on the Reverse of the OP's 16P then click on it again and take a look at all 3 sets of Bands plus the Axe Blade. I think you just might change your mind on the coin.
Ken
Important tenants of grading are missed without looking at a coin in hand.
In a two dimensional image, I cannot judge luster or hairlines for example.
At best these are a guess.
Luster is king... look in the protected areas of the design, check the AU coin for luster. Then look at the high points for color change. Those are the breaks in the luster and a rub or two somewhere that keep it from a MS62/63.
Strike... Agree with OP, because I am a strike snob. In a different series like Buffalo Nickel or key date coin with a bump in grade means big $$$ jump, those mushy strikes might cap the grade. But that comes down to strike characteristics for that year and that mint.
Hits... Less obvious on a two dimensional image and without tilting the coin in proper light.
Eye Appeal.... I struggle with Peace and Franklins and asked the experts in the grading class, "what would push a clean Franklin from a MS65 to a MS 67?"
Answer was toning (eye appeal) and luster.
Luster and toning and clean coin probably off set the weak strike on the 1945... only a guess.
I do pretty well grading Morgans and Buffalo nickels.
Gold, Mercs, Lincolns are a witch to grade in hand because they are so small.
Just my unprofessional, somewhat educated... 2 cents.
Best advice is to take the ANA grading class. Worth every dollar and will help a great deal.
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First me must remember that grading is subjective!
Second, No one is perfect.
Trust me on this one, some one will buy them using a greysheet.
In my experience our host does it’s best and those that I have interacted with do seem to care. No one or thing is perfect.
My 2C.
It is a 16 which are usually pretty well struck. Look at the color breaks along the edge of the feathers and what appear to be abrasions at the base of the neck. One could maybe get to 58, but I don't think many people would ever get to MS60 much less GEM on that one.
That image is so blurred when it's blown up that it is worthless! I stand by my original comment.
You didn't ask a question. You made a statement.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
@jmlanzaf
@Fairlaneman
@Justacommeman
There is too much change of color (rub) to be anything but AU-58 TO ME personally. IN FACT, the coin is overgraded as a "58" because the coin's surfaces are NOT very choice. We can blame the ANA for combining the amount of marks with the amount of wear within a grade range.
Nevertheless, IMO, if the OP's coin did not have all those hits it would have graded MS-something in spite of a little friction. Therefore, I believe it was net graded because it is so beat up.
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We'll never know for sure and your opinions carry as much weight as mine.
Oh, so you were just stirring the pot... LOL
Agreed, and in my experience 99.99% of the coins are graded correctly within a point. I've done my best to prove that statement wrong, but they don't miss by much.
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I apologize to everyone I offended with the pcgs remark, I was just frustrated
Well I sold it for 40 on Ebay today lol
Thank you for explaining the die wear issue for that year, with that being said I now understand what the member was saying before of apple's to oranges,, I've done alotta reading and photo grading but I'm an deff still a newbie and I shouldnt dog on pcgs cause I'm frustrated