What 100oz silver bar should I buy?
airplanenut
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I saw a 100oz bar at a show over the weekend, and rather than inquire about it, decided to think about it, leave the show, and then decide I want one. I've been trying to figure out what exactly I saw, but I haven't seen anything online that seems to match (or photos are deceiving, or I'm not remembering it properly). It's also possible that it's a rare, older bar and selling at a significant premium to spot, which isn't what I want to pay.
Anyway, I'd like a big hunk of silver and am trying to figure out the best one to get as a piece to enjoy beyond it just being a store of value. I particularly like poured bars (I specifically like the way they look and I don't like the bars that look/are machined), and if I had it my way, I'd probably go for something with a matte/muted finish over polished (I have a poured RMC kilo bar, so that's my base for what a polished finish looks like: https://www.jmbullion.com/1-kilo-rmc-silver-bar/)
To that end, I've searched around and found a few things I like and was hoping to get some input, especially as some sites don't show more than one photo, which makes judging the overall shape/finish difficult.
As far as Engelhard goes, I like the bottom two bars here, but since it's a grab-bag, wouldn't want the top bar: https://www.jmbullion.com/100-oz-engelhard-silver-bar/
Regarding the Johnson Matthey bar, I like the ingot shape and may acquiesce regarding the polished finish: https://www.bgasc.com/product/johnson-matthey-100-oz-silver-bullion-bar-999-fine-silver-shape-design-our-choice-secondary-market/100-oz-silver-bars-all-brands
If I were to go JM, perhaps the Asahi bar is a better choice, at least at this moment, as it's the cheapest bar I can find with this deal (plus CC points), but it's straying away from the older look: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Daily-Deal-100-oz-Asahi-Silver-Bar-999-Fine/312502149880
There are certainly single bars on eBay where I know exactly the one I'm getting, but many of them are priced with significant premiums. I'm hoping to find the marriage of low price point and most like what I'm looking for. I'll pay a bit more for something more interesting, but not a huge premium.
So, any thoughts ? Feel free to show some pictures while you're at it.
Edit... one other note: The links above are just for easy access to pictures. I've bought from a bunch of bullion dealers before, and whatever I choose, I'll shop around for its best price. If there's a recommendation for a certain seller of a certain bar, I'm open to that, too.
Comments
none its too big . Better off with 10 10 oz. bars .
Not what you asked for, but I think these look good. (found at Kitco)
I knew it would happen.
If you are just starting out, I wouldn't buying any silver bar (10 or 100oz) more than a $1 over spot. I've found 3 from Scottsdale on sale for $1590 last week. There have been several vintage Johnson Matthey (more square) 100 oz bars with serial numbers around $1600-1625. I stick to the bigger names like JM or Engelhard and stay actually stay away from the 100 oz RCM bars since many of them have been counterfeit. I did just buy some pressed JM bars with a little more premium, but, only because I used to have a few and really like them. Here are a few of my recent pick ups...
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I like the Republic Metals Corporation silver bars. It's a large company that produces bars with the old poured look and a nice design without a big premium since they are still currently being produced. Check their web site.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Zubie---I've never heard of counterfeit RCM silver bars. Do you have a documentation? I've heard of 100 oz Engelhard bars being drilled out to steal the silver with the drill holes being backfilled with some metal alloy to bring the weight back up to the proper weight. The vast majority of counterfeit silver bars are 1 oz size and are being made by the Chinese. Go to aliexpress or dhGate to see what counterfeit bars and coins are being manufactured by the Chinese. These are large legitimate web sites that are similar to eBay and they have free shipping to the US. This is the source of many of the counterfeit bars and coins that you see at most US flea markets and on eBay.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I prefer the RCM 10 oz. ,9999 bars, more liquid. I buy them from Bullion Exchanges on ebay whenever there is a 10% bonus bucks in effect.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Or three kilo bars if you want large bars. Kilo bars are a nice "in-between" size that are commonly bought/sold.
The 100 oz. bars sure feel hefty in the hand. Like others have said, they just aren’t as liquid as the smaller bars. 10 oz. bars offer the best of both worlds. They’re liquid and big enough to have substance when you hold it. Here is my only 100 oz. brick.
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I like the older 100oz JM bars the Canadian ones with patience, you can get one around the normal silver price:
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Downtown1974's bar is also good, it's just the newer version...
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How often are bars eligible for eBay Bucks? I've bought bullion coins (specifically world gold that trades near spot) in coin categories before, but I haven't seen much pure bullion listed outside the bullion categories.
Yes--these JM bars look similar to what I'm remembering. Slightly tapered, and they don't look as polished as the newest ones that are more prevalent. Since most sellers I've seen haven't seemed to make a distinction (and the photos look like newer bars), is there a specific place to look for one (other than eBay)?
This is where the collector in me comes out. I'm not putting together a pile of these bars (though that would be fun, too)... I just think it would be neat to have one big silver brick. True it might not be the most efficient way to spend money, but for the little extra that I pay (or lose when it comes time to sell), I get the extra enjoyment out of the bar. I will probably get some more smaller bars, too, but since they're cheaper, it's easier to get a range of designs, whereas I need to get the big bar right on the first try.
I would just check ebay for a specific listing showing the actual bar being sold...
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Yep, it is nice to have a pile of 1ozers, a group of 10s, or even a few kilos (my personal favorite) but sometimes you just want one big chunk. I got the itch last year and brought home this one... My first and only hundo.
Unfortunately with some recent (over)spending I am cutting this one loose. A Great bar with much history and ties to engelhard, I'm pretty sure I paid a buck or two over spot at the time of purchase and that was okay with me.
Here it is,
The Sheffield Smelting Co.
It's all about what the people want...
Bullion earns ebay bucks when the seller lists it in a non-bullion category. It's strictly the category chosen by the lister that determines ebay bucks eligibility. Click on my link with Bullion Exchanges above to see an example of eligibility. Lots of sellers do this to get your business. When searching, do not limit yourself to the bullion category.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Right. I should have been clearer (and admittedly I typed my reply before checking that specific listing). When the promos are going on, I've been careful to find the bullion coins available in non-bullion categories, but I hadn't spent too much time looking for bars, so my question was really asking how often bars are listed such that they're eligible (and perhaps how much variety is available, or whether it's just one or two common bars), since the bars I've been looking at recently have all been listed as bullion. My understanding is that the big players have a deal with eBay for extra low fees when listing items as bullion, and I'm sure a lot of that is based on eBay knowing they won't have to pay out the eBay Bucks.
the 100 oz have premiums that disappear when selling them. get a bar because you want one and know that you'll have some not too back of spot buy offer later.
I like it, but 100 oz bars are too big for me. It'll be hard to resale !!!
Bullion Exchanges 100 OZ RCM bar @+.37 I wouldn't be concerned with authenticity.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sale-Price-100-oz-Royal-Canadian-Mint-RCM-9999-Fine-Silver-Bar-/162747858156?hash=item25e4873cec
That 100 RCM from BE is a good deal.
JM and Englhard are top tier bars. Not sure why RCM gets no respect
No Reason IMO. If priced right I go for it. > @MsMorrisine said:
I have no issue with RCM so much as their bar is machined, so on aesthetics it's not what I'm looking for.
Those 100z's don't sell well. Be prepared to take less than spot. Same goes for the 10 ouncers in most cases. Stick with whats liquid, much less of a headache on down the road but what the hell do I know. Regards
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
@airplanenut - Nice JM bar from a great seller on Ebay for $1582.35 as I type, plus some CC money back... not bad at all.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-oz-Johnson-Matthey-JM-999-Fine-Silver-Bullion-Bar/202079202561?_trkparms=5079:5000006556
What 100oz silver bar should did I buy?
That's a really good price for those. The only question is how much more expensive would something like the bar @Zubie showed and @asheland mentioned go for, since aesthetically, I think it's nicer.
I'm getting there, but not yet...
If you're unsure, just wait... You'll love it when you get the right bar!
I love those 100s.... Just cant get enough of them!
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Unless it’s going to be way more, I really like the bar you commented on... I just don’t know exactly what I need to search for to find one or where to look for one (outside of Ebay being the only option).
They come up on eBay. I’d just search JM 100oz poured. Try to find an individual selling one, not a large dealer.
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ten 10 oz RCM .9999 bars would be my choice.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I prefer Scottsdale Stackers for 10 oz bars. I get the secondary bars on the Scottsdale website and almost every one is brand new or nearly brand new. The 50 pictured are brand new and consecutive order. Its a great deal if you order a bunch and pay with check or wire. Although I really like the 10 oz RCM bars too, the SS secondary bars were actually cheaper.
These came in today and all between $1570 and $1625 each. The Britannia and one of the Engelhards were "random" bars on ebay and only .65 cents over spot. Plus, I really like that 1984 Sunshine bar too!!!
All these bars went to deep underground storage today so I had to take a few pics while they were out.
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Here is good deal on the newer 100 oz JM Poured Loaf Bars if anyone is interested...
http:/ebay.com/itm/202079202561
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I like the look of poured bars too but playing the Devil's Advocate: Are there any concerns about poured bars being drilled/filled? I don't know but wondered if a machined bar is less likely to be questionable?
P.S. That 100oz Britannia is really sweet.
The only 100 oz bars that were drilled and filled that I'm aware of was the extruded Engelhard bars. They are squared-off with sharp corners and the ends where they were drilled are flat so it was easy to polish the end to hide the alteration. Before buying them bullion dealers would saw them in half to check the interior for tampering.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Perry,
I could not find any actual documentation about 100 RCM bars being counterfeit. I had read some posts on message boards awhile back, but, one of my local B&M discounted them due to the fact that he did run into a fake RCM a few years ago.
I think with the ability to check the bars these days with the precious metals analyzers, the RCM bars are safe to own. But, if I had a choice between 100 oz bars all at the same price, I'd definitely stick with a big name bar like JM or Engelhard and RCM would be near the bottom of my list.
The 10 oz RCM bars are a different story with all their new security features. I think their 10 oz bars are top tier and highly desirable. But, with that, comes the higher premium too.
If I could offer any advice to new PM stackers, it would be at every purchase, to think about how you are going to sell this coin/bar in the future when PMs spike again. Have a plan, talk to your local B&M (how much can he take at one time) and try to buy the more desirable bars that everyone knows and trust.
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everything is counterfeited
Absolutely, if its been manufactured it's been counterfeited. That said, bars are MUCH easier to counterfeit than coins.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
This is a great thread. Good discussion & good info. When it's all said & done, I'd like to know what bar airplanenut buys...………..and how did he arrive at his decision?
The only 100 ozers I ever owned were 3 poured bars from Sunshine Mining in the mid-late '80s, and I kinda miss having them.
Still, I think Zubie is 100% correct in that you should have a plan about how you are going to liquidate the bars, if and when it comes time to sell.
I knew it would happen.
I'll let you know when I get one. Right now I think the older style JM is what I like best. I just have to find out.