Do I have a right to complain or is this my fault?

Bishtw

I'm currently trying to complete the 56 super set and after finishing the 56 basic, I'm now concentrating on the extremely hard to find 2nd series white backs.

So while browsing ebay, I come across a Joe Frazier #141 (WB) perfectly centered L to R and probably 60/40 up and down and with soft corners. Definitely not high end but with great colors, I can afford it and it has eye appeal.

I read the description that says, "Card has great color, nice corners, smooth edges, clean edges and good centering. Back is clean with no problems. "

The card was priced fair so I click on the BIN, pay for it, and continue on browsing.

The card is delivered today. I pull in out of its top loader to put it in a card saver to include with my next sub and a notice 3 separate wringles (creases that dont go all the way through) on the face.

Slightly irritated, I take a few pictures, go back to my purchase history to find the card, to contact the seller and tell him I'll be returning it and I decide to double check to make sure I read the description correctly.

It reads word for word as I typed above. I then clicked "read more" which i did not do prior to buying the card. Now here it says the same as before but followed by, "In GD to VG condition due to a couple light creases near the top of the card."

My first thought is that while the seller isnt out right lying, there is sneaky deception at work here. Then I began to question myself.

Do you think the seller is in his right not to disclose the flaws in the listing description that shows on the first page and Im to blame for not reading further or was he being dishonest and I fell for it?

countdouglas

I've had to learn my lesson on this, as well. I have no idea how the little blurbs that eBay sometimes posts in the item description box get selected, but when it says "read more", it's best to actually read more. There is sometimes a whole paragraph or more that describes the item in completely different terms as what the blurb would lead you to believe. I don't know if the seller has any influence at all on what was prominently displayed, but the fact that they were transparent in the entire description leads me to believe they weren't intentionally deceptive. I've been burned similarly on this a time or two, myself.

Bishtw

@countdouglas said:
the fact that they were transparent in the entire description leads me to believe they weren't intentionally deceptive.

This is where I go back and forth. I lean towards that the seller, (Im not a seller so I dont know for certain) has "influence" towards that prominently displayed blurb and by strategically opting not to disclose it on the first page and describing in way that a trusting (unsuspecting) someone wouldnt think to investigate further would just click BIN.

Again I may be wrong ,thats why im asking for opinions, but I see a ton of honest sellers that disclose the flaws in the titles to just make sure there isnt a misrepresentation. This seller has over 3,500 sells so he isnt new to the game.

countdouglas

I tend to lean towards an algorithm of some sort choosing the blurb. If you click around on enough items, you'll see some of the item descriptions make no sense in the context of the item being sold, but when you read more and see the longer description, key words or phrases have been pulled and pasted together. I don't know for sure. I guess you could always initiate a return of the item and see what the result is. The worst they can do is tell you no.

ZTarg

Let me start by saying I'm not the seller of this item, nor do I have any affiliation with him/her.

I'm guessing you were looking at eBay on your phone when you made this purchase if there was a "read more" option. Sellers write their full description in the description box when making a listing, and there is no "deciding about placement" for any of the text. How it gets chopped up on a mobile device has nothing to do with the seller. I looked at your purchase on my PC (not my phone), and here is the seller's description in full with nothing to click on to read more.

Out of the beautiful 1956 Topps set, this is white back, tough high# 141 Joe Frazier in Good to Very Good condition due to a couple of light creases near top of card. Card has great color, nice corners, smooth edges, clean surface & good centering. Back is clean with no problems. Guaranteed original & untrimmed.

For you to think the seller purposely, and with clear intent to deceive, moved wording around on a $6.00 item just to target the possible customers who might be viewing from a mobile device is ridiculous. His scan doesn't show the creases (which you said in hand were more subtle wrinkles) yet he made sure to describe them worse than they actually are, probably so that a buyer might be pleasantly surprised.

I guess I owe you a thank you because you just found me an honest seller whose stuff I will now check on a regular basis.

craig44

I have to side with the seller here. just chalk it up to being a $6 lesson.

dennis07

Lesson learned. Keep the card. Move on. At least that is what I would do.

PopeyesSpinach

Ah grasshoppa. One must read to attain knowledge. It is the key to many thing. It nourish life, happiness, success and understanding but most importantly, successful eBay transaction!

KbKards

@ZTarg said:
Let me start by saying I'm not the seller of this item, nor do I have any affiliation with him/her.

I'm guessing you were looking at eBay on your phone when you made this purchase if there was a "read more" option. Sellers write their full description in the description box when making a listing, and there is no "deciding about placement" for any of the text. How it gets chopped up on a mobile device has nothing to do with the seller. I looked at your purchase on my PC (not my phone), and here is the seller's description in full with nothing to click on to read more.

Out of the beautiful 1956 Topps set, this is white back, tough high# 141 Joe Frazier in Good to Very Good condition due to a couple of light creases near top of card. Card has great color, nice corners, smooth edges, clean surface & good centering. Back is clean with no problems. Guaranteed original & untrimmed.

For you to think the seller purposely, and with clear intent to deceive, moved wording around on a $6.00 item just to target the possible customers who might be viewing from a mobile device is ridiculous. His scan doesn't show the creases (which you said in hand were more subtle wrinkles) yet he made sure to describe them worse than they actually are, probably so that a buyer might be pleasantly surprised.

I guess I owe you a thank you because you just found me an honest seller whose stuff I will now check on a regular basis.

100% on the money. The mobile versions of eBay won’t show the seller’s full description unless the interested buyer presses the button to view the full description. Common sense would have most people pressing that button prior to buying, especially on an ungraded card to help ensure it meets their needs. Unfortunately there are problematic buyers who will just buy based on the title and picture, and are to lazy to even read the truncated description let alone the full description. Then when they get exactly what was described and realize it’s not what they wanted, the go ballistic on the seller to get their money back and even open up a not as described case forcing the seller to pay for the return. On a $6 card the odds are an immediate refund with the seller telling the buyer to keep the card. Idiocy rewarded and another for the blocked buyer list.

ReggieCleveland

There is no "read more." The listing's description spells it all out right there. Sellers have zero control what gets placed in those little blurbs. Even if they did, if you're buying raw and don't read a listing's description you have nobody to blame but yourself.

Plus, dude, it's a $6 card. The fact that you're wavering on whose fault it is should be enough to just say "whatever." Life is too short to get hung up on $6 cards. But since you asked, it was your mistake.

Arthur

stevek

For 6 bucks, why not just keep the card until ya find one in better condition?

mtcards

Always read the entire description. Answering the original question, I would say the fault lies with you

KbKards

Here's a nearly identical card offered by the seller.
https://ebay.com/itm/1956-Topps-WB-104-Bob-Lennon-Giants-White-Back-Nice/152436404773

If viewed in desk top version the description reads.
Out of the beautiful 1956 Topps set this is the very tough white back, #104 Bob Lennon Very Good condition due to (2) short, barely noticible light spider creases through hat. Card has, decent corners, outstanding color & gloss, smooth edges & great centering. White back is clean with no problems. Nice card! Guaranteed original & untrimmed.

If viewed from a mobile version Ebay's algorithm derives a brief description containing what it thinks is most relevant, and displays the mobile user the following.
Card has, decent corners, outstanding color & gloss, smooth edges & great centering. White back is clean with no problems. Nice card!

There's a very obvious read more link to hit or if you touch that area the full description from the desktop version is then displayed.

Based on what the OP saw there was no advertised condition of the card. If he was looking for the card to be in a certain condition then what he saw was not enough information for him to buy the card. All the information he needed to keep him from buying it was a simple micro second click away. Maybe ebay should move the buy it now button into the read more area so people are forced to see the information about what they're buying.

Bishtw

It was on my mobile and now I know. This is a learning process for me and I considered I could be wrong and thats why I asked more seasoned ebayers and buyers. A lesson learned and a cheap one at that.

Sdub

Maybe I have this wrong, but the main description (title of listing), it says this: "Card has great color, nice corners, smooth edges, clean edges and good centering. Back is clean with no problems. " But buried in read-more is the actual condition? Am i getting this wrong?

I'm calling BS. If you've got creases in a card, that should be in the heading. At a mininum, state VG in the heading. But the listing description is the opposite of the condition of the card. Very deceiving. I get that buyer learned his lesson and has no case, but seller is tweeb. PM me the seller so I can put on my block list.

stevek

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Topps-White-Back-High-141-Joe-Frazier-Cards-WB-/152439882539?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

Actual cost with shipping was $8.99 - now that's almost 9 bucks!

KbKards

@Sdub said:
Maybe I have this wrong, but the main description (title of listing), it says this: "Card has great color, nice corners, smooth edges, clean edges and good centering. Back is clean with no problems. " But buried in read-more is the actual condition? Am i getting this wrong?

I'm calling BS. If you've got creases in a card, that should be in the heading. At a mininum, state VG in the heading. But the listing description is the opposite of the condition of the card. Very deceiving. I get that buyer learned his lesson and has no case, but seller is tweeb. PM me the seller so I can put on my block list.

Look at the link I posted above and read what I wrote as it’s exactly like the OP’s listing. Creasing was mentioned prior to describing the other aspects of the card. Ebay, not the seller selects what will be shown in the shortened description when viewed on a mobile device. The full description is just a click away. Viewed in desktop mode the design of the description is clear and concise and in no way confusing or deceptive. When ebay’s system converts it over to be viewed on a small mobile device the computer pulls a couple lines “randomly” from the description. The seller does not control what is displayed on the mobile device. The seller can meticulously describe the item but eBay hides it away and the buyer has to want to read more.

Bishtw

@stevek said:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Topps-White-Back-High-141-Joe-Frazier-Cards-WB-/152439882539?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

Actual cost with shipping was $8.99 - now that's almost 9 bucks!

Its not about the money at all. Ive been collecting and buying cards off Ebay for all of 6 months now and am admittedly green. I joined this forum as a way to learn and ask questions when I dont know something, which is exactly what I did.

I've read enough threads on here to know that there are indeed fraudulent and dishonest sellers on Ebay. I just wanted to know if this is one of the techniques they use or if I was wrong in my thinking. Consensus says Im to blame. Im cool with that. Now Ive learned something.

I never said anything about the money and in fact I never even posted the actual cost. But my your comment I can tell almost $9 is unconsequencal to you and you believe it is to me so my all means, can I borrow $9?😁

ReggieCleveland

@Bishtw said:
It was on my mobile and now I know. This is a learning process for me and I considered I could be wrong and thats why I asked more seasoned ebayers and buyers. A lesson learned and a cheap one at that.

Way to take the high road. My guess is that eBay doesn't give two kitten farts about making sure you see the part about the wrinkles. Their algorithm probably just picks up on the section with the positive adjectives like "great," "clean," "nice," "smooth," "good," etc. All they care about is you spending the money. Gotta give the seller credit as they were not only honest but pretty darn upfront about it, too; making sure that it was the first thing people saw when they read the description.

Like you said, a cheap lesson. Hopefully you'll now find an even better version of the card for $5.

Arthur

slum22

Yeah, this is definitely not on the seller. This is on the OP (who has already assumed responsibility in the post above mine) and on eBay. I buy raw cards all the time and I noticed when viewing on my phone that the description shown on the main page of the mobile is often abbreviated. Luckily, I figured this out before bidding on the wrong card and now I click on the "read more" tab as a habit to ensure I am not missing something.

stevek

@Bishtw said:

@stevek said:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Topps-White-Back-High-141-Joe-Frazier-Cards-WB-/152439882539?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

Actual cost with shipping was $8.99 - now that's almost 9 bucks!

Its not about the money at all. Ive been collecting and buying cards off Ebay for all of 6 months now and am admittedly green. I joined this forum as a way to learn and ask questions when I dont know something, which is exactly what I did.

I've read enough threads on here to know that there are indeed fraudulent and dishonest sellers on Ebay. I just wanted to know if this is one of the techniques they use or if I was wrong in my thinking. Consensus says Im to blame. Im cool with that. Now Ive learned something.

I never said anything about the money and in fact I never even posted the actual cost. But my your comment I can tell almost $9 is unconsequencal to you and you believe it is to me so my all means, can I borrow $9?😁

<<< to contact the seller and tell him I'll be returning it >>>

This above comment sure seemed like you wanted your money back?

Whatever...in any event, you also said "Now Ive learned something"...and that's good.

Years ago, i also had a learning curve on Ebay, we all do, but it was much rougher back then as it was a lot harder to return things and get your money back.

You're on the right track using this particular sale as an example. You bought from a seller with a good Ebay reputation who displays a front and back pic of the card. That's more than half the battle right there, to not getting ripped off on Ebay.

softparade

Caveat emptor