**UPDATE IN FIRST POST** Fraud/Bad Checks. ID'd as David Lane using a Los Angeles, CA address

UtahCoin

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                                    Possible Fraud/Bad Checks

NCIC is investigating individuals ordering large amounts of gold coins with fraudulent checks. The names are different but the address is the same except for the Suite number.

David Lane
5440 Crenshaw Blvd Ste.1100
Los Angeles, CA 90043

Mark Lewis
5440 Crenshaw Blvd Ste. 3300
Los Angeles, CA 90043

NCIC is coordinating this investigation with the Los Angeles Sheriff's Dept.

If anyone has information contact:

Doug Davis
817-723-7231
Doug@numismaticcrimes.org

Hemispherical

Doug and NCIC is on the ball! Thanks @UtahCoin for posting.

291fifth

Why would anyone take a check for 60 ounces of gold?

ARCO

@291fifth said:
Why would anyone take a check for 60 ounces of gold?

You simply let the check clear before releasing the merchandise. I just bought 20 oz of silver with a check from Apmex. They will not ship my silver until the check clears. Sound strategy.

Of course if you suspect fraud, there is not point accepting a check you believe will bounce.

291fifth

@ARCO said:

@291fifth said:
Why would anyone take a check for 60 ounces of gold?

You simply let the check clear before releasing the merchandise. I just bought 20 oz of silver with a check from Apmex. They will not ship my silver until the check clears. Sound strategy.

Of course if you suspect fraud, there is not point accepting a check you believe will bounce.

How do you really know when a check clears? My own bank gives a very fuzzy answer when I ask this question.

BAJJERFAN

@291fifth said:

@ARCO said:

@291fifth said:
Why would anyone take a check for 60 ounces of gold?

You simply let the check clear before releasing the merchandise. I just bought 20 oz of silver with a check from Apmex. They will not ship my silver until the check clears. Sound strategy.

Of course if you suspect fraud, there is not point accepting a check you believe will bounce.

How do you really know when a check clears? My own bank gives a very fuzzy answer when I ask this question.

You don't since the check writer can say it was forged or issued without his permission and try to claw the funds back.

JBK

@ARCO said:

@291fifth said:
Why would anyone take a check for 60 ounces of gold?

You simply let the check clear before releasing the merchandise. I just bought 20 oz of silver with a check from Apmex. They will not ship my silver until the check clears. Sound strategy.

I might be wrong but the way it used to work (and I think still does), a check "clearing" simply means that a certain amount of time has elapsed without the check being returned or "bounced". In other words, there is no proactive notice that the check is good, etc. Of course, in a world occupied by decent people that is enough, but....

I have heard of checks bouncing weeks after being deposited.

jclovescoins

Why is this being posted publicly when the transaction never even took place? What if the check was good and this individual’s name was just smeared? (I don’t know this person or any dealer in Washington...just seems odd to broadcast about a transaction that never took place and no crime was committed).

BStrauss3

It used to be that when you received the check back from the bank you had a window to dispute it. The law known as "Check 21" changed the front end (allowing conversion to electronic form for faster processing and the return of a substitute check vs. the physical original). But it didn't change the back end...

https://www.fdic.gov/consumers/assistance/protection/check21.html

If you notice a problem with a substitute check, you should contact your bank as soon as possible. Check 21 provides a special process that allows you to claim a refund when you receive a substitute check from a bank and you think there is an error because of the substitute check. In general, you should contact your bank no later than 40 days from the date your bank provided the substitute check or from the date of the statement that shows the problem.

Follow the FAQ and read "Consumer Protection"... it looks like you have 40 days to make the claim and then the bank has 45 days to investigate or has to refund (which would likely cause the other bank to claw back the $). Except "If your bank later determines that your claim was not valid, it may reverse the refund and interest it has paid to you." which seems to indicate the investigation can continue longer.

blackhorse360

I would Never Ever take a check for a gold purchase. Make them send United States Postal Money Orders

djm

@blackhorse360 said:
I would Never Ever take a check for a gold purchase. Make them send United States Postal Money Orders

How does this help you? There a pages of stolen or fraudulent United States Postal Money Orders listed on the USPS website. Fraud can be perpetrated with any form of payment.

BAJJERFAN

@djm said:

@blackhorse360 said:
I would Never Ever take a check for a gold purchase. Make them send United States Postal Money Orders

How does this help you? There a pages of stolen or fraudulent United States Postal Money Orders listed on the USPS website. Fraud can be perpetrated with any form of payment.

If they show to be stolen then don't ship. Or ask for pics of the money orders ahead of time. I'd imagine that $80K worth of money orders would get someone's attention.

BAJJERFAN

@jclovescoins said:
Why is this being posted publicly when the transaction never even took place? What if the check was good and this individual’s name was just smeared? (I don’t know this person or any dealer in Washington...just seems odd to broadcast about a transaction that never took place and no crime was committed).

So you would have shipped the gold?

Timbuk3

Thanks for the heads-up !!!

blitzdude

Checks? It's 2019, who still uses a check?

BAJJERFAN

@blitzdude said:
Checks? It's 2019, who still uses a check?

At our most recent coin show I'd posit that every dealer there wrote a check for table fees and most mailed it in an envelope with a stamp.

JBK

I still use stamps that need to be licked (bought at a discount).

Smudge

@blitzdude said:
Checks? It's 2019, who still uses a check?

Me.

Namvet69

Sounds like there are prior offenses in other jurisdictions linked to this suspect. Peace Roy

ARCO

@JBK said:

I might be wrong but the way it used to work (and I think still does), a check "clearing" simply means that a certain amount of time has elapsed without the check being returned or "bounced". In other words, there is no proactive notice that the check is good, etc. Of course, in a world occupied by decent people that is enough, but....

I have heard of checks bouncing weeks after being deposited.

I have been in the payroll business for 25 years, working with some questionable companies that bounce checks repeatedly. Once a check clears the ACh clearing house, it has cleared. Generally two or three days is sufficient for the depositing bank to know with certainty, but seven or ten days is usually the length a seller will request to know for sure. I have never seen a check bounce after 5 business days and our business has taken thousands.

APMEX takes checks and all bullion dealers I have worked with did the same. Some waited as long as 14 days.

davewesen

The address you gave is a mail service

3 Star Postal Services