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Additional Information on CAC Stickers
DisneyFan
Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
Coin World had three guest editorials this past December and January discussing CAC stickers and published the success rates at CAC. It was somewhat discouraging to learn that out of the 1.1 million coins reviewed, only 43.9% been stickered when CAC is believed to sticker A and B coins.
If you have already thrown out your copy of Coin World, hopefully your local library has a copy. If not, the best thing you can do to promote this hobby is to ask your library to start subscribing to Coin World.
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Hmmm....Why is that "only 43.9%"? That seems like a lot. You wouldn't expect the distribution of A, B, and C coins to be even. I actually think that number is depressingly high.
Before reading this I would have thought that 40% to 45% of coins submitted got beans. I think that this is actually a generous number considering it's not easy to get beans on MS 66 and MS 67 coins. They may be perfect but if the strike is soft or the color suggests a dip these coins shouldn't get beaned.
44% A or B
56% C or over graded
If that article is accurate
Gold sticker rate is much lower
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Another POV... If the article is accurate, then that means that less than 1.5% of the roughly 83m PCGS and NGC certified coins have been reviewed by CAC so far.
Of course you probably should cut that 83m number in half since NGC cranks out so much junk (e.g Telemarketing stuff) that no one would send in to CAC. But hey, that would still be less than 3% of all PCGS and NGC coins have been reviewed.
My "guess" is that higher percentages of higher valued coins and the more popular series have been sent in but the numbers would probably still be pretty low.
Or maybe a disproportional number of the best coins have been sent in. Ah, who knows.
Like they always say collect the sticker, not the coin.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Who published whose success rates?
Did CAC publish these rates and Coin World quote them?
For what time period(s)?
For which series?
Wow...That's lower than I thought.
Maybe old gold has a higher %???
My Saint Set
1.1 million seems awfully low with all of the people submitting common date 1879-1882 San Francisco Morgans including in lower grades for which there are literally hundreds of thousands certified by the services.
Those don't go to CAC. The CAC submission number is probably correct as they announced their millionth submission last year.
A lot of opportunity?
I don't think that percentage is necessarily that high. I think you have to take into account that submissions are not evenly distributed among A, B and C coins... you would expect that many more "perceived" A & B coins are submitted than obvious C coins. Then the number makes more sense.
Thats a good way to promote the hobby......could be done at schools too.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
In an old interview, John Albanese estimated that 80% of all vintage (non modern) coins would grade A or B and would get a sticker. Because of those coins that are held in collections, he estimated that maybe only 50% of a typical dealer's stock might qualify.
Yep. Many are screened so the creme usually gets sent in
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
But if 80% of coins are A/B, isn't the value of the CAC minimal? 8/10 coins are A/B anyway
Of course PCGS enjoys a huge part of the telemarketing stock as well !
It seems like a much smaller percentage are available for sale at any one time. For example, there are roughly 6,000 US coins available via Heritage Auctions right now and only 722 are CAC.
Yep. Yep. Yep. What gets sent to CAC is a biased sample ... kinda like PCGS and NGC in the first decade.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
WHO CARES !!!
Please read the three Guest Editorials in Coin World before commenting. There was a lot of data in those Guest Editorials and we need to support the good work that Coin World is doing. : )
I disagree at least for collector submissions. There is no charge for coins that fail to sticker or at least it was that way the last time I submitted.
That 6,000 includes moderns and CAC ineligible coins.
Are they? Don't most of the auction houses have all of their coins screened by CAC?
no
Really? I would be very surprised if Heritage did not utilize CAC for all major auctions. Perhaps not weekly auctions, but there is no reason for them to not submit. I consigned a coin to Heritage last year that had no chance to CAC and they submitted it to CAC on my behalf (without even asking me).
Thank you for sharing that information. Just curious, did they bill you for the CAC charges?
That's a good point. Some larger companies may just mass submit coins. The few dealer members I talk with do screen coins to CAC since they pay the evaluation fee and postage. They submit fewer lower value coins (<$500) and screen the other coins they submit so the coins submitted at least 'appear' to be A and B coins. The C coins don't make the trip.
As a collector member, I screen the coins I send in for review. Even though there is no cost for a non-sticker result, it still costs postage both ways ... which is no longer very cheap.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Yes, they did. It was a $6k coin so not a big deal really. But it made me believe they just routinely sent in coins for their major auctions
Interesting
For basis of any bidding on CAC material I consult the bid value for CAC shown in CDN for sell (MV) view CDN CPG.
What in your view constitutes criteria for a C coin? What would be subjectivity variation among different reviewers.
I reject what I consider C coins (none CAC) all the time at shows usually brought to my table / “below bid, here look at these / wholesale, great deal won’t last.” I wonder if JA agrees C coins too.
I would say C:
Poorly struck, ugly toning, pvc or putty damage, unattractive eye appeal, staple scratch, so darn low end cant give benefit of doubt. One fellow is working on a “low ball” display of these.
"...no cost for a non-sticker result...?"
A common belief is CAC makes money on resubmissions.
After buying at auctions and being told a coin had not been sent to CAC, I asked two different auctioneers to send a coin to CAC. Both did not sticker; but, I was still charged both times.
If you are a collector-submittor, you do not pay the evaluation charge if it doesn't sticker. This is not true for dealer/auctioneer-submittors.
That's the difference between a dealer member (e.g., auction house) and a collector member of CAC. Dealer members pay for the CAC evaluation irrespective of the result. Collector members only pay if the coin is stickered.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Thank you for sharing that information.