Dozen Early Bust Halves VF-AU NGC Details Cleaned - Advice of Best Way to Dispose???????

winesteven

A good friend (NOT me) wanted to help out his good friend (a coin dealer) with financial trouble, so he purchased a dozen "attractive" RAW early Bust Halves over the past few years. He just asked his friend to submit them for grading, and his friend sent them to NGC, and every one came back in a body bag. My friend has learned MANY lessons from this, so please don't pile on. He understands the coins are worth much less than what he paid, and he accepts that. What is the best way at this point to maximize whatever value he can? Some are AU, some are XF, some VF - ALL Details Cleaned. I am posting a few photos he emailed me. Your thoughts?

erwindoc

If he has a reeded edge, I could use one for my 7070, provided its not too polished.

erwindoc

Oops, just reread the post, EARLY bust halves.

Martin

I'd be talkin to my good friend the dealer.

Martin

mustangmanbob

I would consider taking one of the lowest "valued" ones, comparing what similar ones have sold for on ebay, and then listing it as a buy it now for the same price, make offer. You will get some offers from stupid to maybe in the ball park.

For example, Coin A, ebay sales for NGC Date 18xx, Condition XF, ranges from 200 to 285, with 7 data points. List if for $235/ Best offer. See what the offers look like. Toss out the $12 offers, etc. After a while, see if anything is OK, like maybe $165. Still a bath, but at least not a bath with a water cannon.

If nothing even decent comes in (Whoa, starting price is too high, he would never accept my offer of X - y%), then relist it down 10%.

If has not cost you anything to list it, and maybe someone will take a go on a cleaned coin for

1) I don't own one, and this is way to get one cheap.
2) I don't own one, yes it's cleaned, but at least it is not from China.
3) I will crack it out, leave it in a Taco Bell Napkin on the sunny ledge for 2 years, and maybe get lucky.
4) Somebody might want a "nice" one, albeit cleaned, for a 7070 album.
5) Maybe someone is really into cleaned, Germ Free Coins, like Howard Hughes, and leaps on the opportunity.

BryceM

Probably these will sell better raw. The slabs are adding negative value. Some coins greatly benefit from authentication, but likely not these.

Sounds like a painful experience. I’d avoid any advice to resubmit them for another chance. That would be throwing good money after bad.

scubafuel

Are they hairlined (parallel scratches) from abrasive cleaning, or just a bit white and shiny? If it’s the second one, he can put them in old paper coin flips for 2-3 years and there’s a decent chance they’ll dull up with new toning and become gradeable.

If the first one, crack them and put them on eBay with good pics, because they’ll never get better.

ARCO

Great collections or Ebay. Personally, I would send them to Great Collections, the fees are the lowest and all the coins will sell no problem.

I wouldn't crack them. If you don't disclose they are cleaned on Ebay, the coins will just be returned and it is deceptive. a dozen cleaned Bust halves from XF-AU, you will still probably net out around $1,500 $2,000, maybe more depending on how many AU coins there are.

cameonut2011

@ARCO said:
Great collections or Ebay. Personally, I would send them to Great Collections, the fees are the lowest and all the coins will sell no problem.

I wouldn't crack them. If you don't disclose they are cleaned on Ebay, the coins will just be returned and it is deceptive. a dozen cleaned Bust halves from XF-AU, you will still probably net out around $1,500 $2,000, maybe more depending on how many AU coins there are.

GC is a good venue, but I think the coins would be massacred in a no reserve auction. I would want to keep control and list it as a BIN listing. I would list them in the BST or go the eBay route.

ChangeInHistory

Get in touch with a bust half expert and see if there is a scarce or rare die marriage in there somewhere.

astrorat

@ChangeInHistory said:
Get in touch with a bust half expert and see if there is a scarce or rare die marriage in there somewhere.

Good advice. List the date, Overton variety (the 'O' number) and grade here. Members here will chime in on rarity. Alternatively, you can check die marriage rarity (vs. grade rarity or die state rarity) here:

https://busthalfprices.com/cbrr.php

There are minor updates in recent years to the ratings, but nothing ground-breaking. R1-R3 coins sell for 'common' money, R4 pieces sell for a modest premium, R5 and above sell for a premium ... sometimes a strong premium.

I will disagree with others and recommend you don't crack out the coins. The coins are graded and attributed in NGC holders. The certification and attribution adds value will aid in selling, in my experience. Selling them raw relies too heavily on 'fooling' someone (relying on their ignorance) that the coins are not problem coins. Smart buyers will discount a raw problem coin.

dan_marinelli

They still have value. If you/he has time I would consider cracking and putting into Wayte Raymond holders for a while. They will tone gradually and probably go up a bit in value. If no time, then just take the hit and sell.

CyStater

There are a lot of graded cleaned bust halves out there. Some that are old cleanings have re-toned to a beautiful color. I can't tell from the photos how harsh the cleaning is. If it isn't distracting then these are still pretty desirable among collectors. Especially if you can identify a rarer Overton or two.

thebeav

Those aren't great photos, but they may not look too bad. They look like they have retoned, or perhaps they didn't get cleaned too harshly.
I would price them 15 or 20 % below uncleaned. They're still nice coins.

Insider2

ONLY SELL RAW.

savitale

I'd suggest eBay at a reasonable Buy It Now with a Best Offer option. Assuming you have time, they will eventually find a home and your fees will only be 13%. In my opinion, unless you disagree with the Details designation the only reason to crack them out would be to try to find a buyer whom you can deceive that they are not cleaned.

BryceM

This might ruffle some feathers, but I disagree with @savitale 's assertion that cracking them out and selling them raw automatically equates to deception. Many people frankly don't care about a light cleaning on a circulated coin. Avoid promoting them as problem-free and offer a generous return privilege and you're perfectly OK in my book. If asked, I would share the entire history, but you're only creating headwind for yourself by selling these particular coins in details holders.

As a thought experiment (OP - don't waste the money!), if these were resubmitted individually, it's likely that at least a few would come back in straight-grade holders. Cleaning exists on a continuum and many coins you and I own in graded holders aren't perfectly orthodox if you look carefully. Grading opinions aren't always based on concrete facts. It's very likely that one or more of our treasured prizes once lived in a details holder.

OKbustchaser

@ChangeInHistory said:
Get in touch with a bust half expert and see if there is a scarce or rare die marriage in there somewhere.

If the Overton attributions are correct--never a certainty with any of the TPGs--then the '27 is an R-4 die marriage and worth maybe a 10 percent premium over a common marriage. The others pictured are all common.

Yacorie1

What would be the reason to crack a bagged coin to sell raw except to be deceptive and hope someone pays better for the coin?

If you have no intention of being deceptive then sell them in the slabs and let the new owner crack them.

jmlanzaf

@Insider2 said:
ONLY SELL RAW.

disagree

You would still have to sell them raw as "AU cleaned" so it won't benefit you any.

shorecoll

If they aren't hairlined, I agree crack them and keep them in Kraft envelopes and let them retone. That isn't deceptive, the majority of busties have been cleaned at some point. If they are hairlined, leave them as they are.

jmlanzaf

@BryceM said:
This might ruffle some feathers, but I disagree with @savitale 's assertion that cracking them out and selling them raw automatically equates to deception. Many people frankly don't care about a light cleaning on a circulated coin. Avoid promoting them as problem-free and offer a generous return privilege and you're perfectly OK in my book. If asked, I would share the entire history, but you're only creating headwind for yourself by selling these particular coins in details holders.

As a thought experiment (OP - don't waste the money!), if these were resubmitted individually, it's likely that at least a few would come back in straight-grade holders. Cleaning exists on a continuum and many coins you and I own in graded holders aren't perfectly orthodox if you look carefully. Grading opinions aren't always based on concrete facts. It's very likely that one or more of our treasured prizes once lived in a details holder.

I agree and disagree.

But there is no difference between selling "AU details - cleaned" in a raw or slabbed coin. It is what it is. If someone likes the look of the coin, they will buy it. Cracking it raw could end up with your AU details coin selling as an XF details coin because people always put the harsher eye on a sight unseen coin.

BryceM

I've been thinking about what I wrote last night. "After further review, the ruling on the field stands." I think I'm on solid footing here. It's the same thing as sending a coin to CAC and having it not get a sticker. Some dealers disclose this (Mark Feld did when he was a dealer & Legend sometimes does), but the vast majority of individuals and dealers don't. Why not? If an auction house mentioned in the lot description that a coin failed to sticker the consignor might be upset. Most of us would be completely understanding of that. They're just (informed, professional) opinions but there's nothing magical about a slab or an insert.

Does a homeowner have to disclose known problems after a professional has identified them when selling real estate? Well, yes....... So I can see it both ways. Still, I don't necessarily put all the problems a home has on the advertising flyer. That sort of stuff can be discussed later. Just don't be deceptive in how you present it.

Yacorie1

I see a big difference between not disclosing that a coin went to CAC and didn't sticker vs. a coin not even having a chance to get into a slab in the first place and then go off to CAC.

OKbustchaser

@savitale said:
In my opinion, unless you disagree with the Details designation the only reason to crack them out would be to try to find a buyer whom you can deceive that they are not cleaned.

Not a matter of deception at all.

Question...if I crack a straight graded AU bust half out of a TPC holder do I need to say that it was once in such and such holder???? Or is that irrelevant info since it no longer is in that holder?

If past history on one hand is irrelevant then so is past history on the other. Either way, the old TPG opinion no longer exists.

TomB

If your friend's time is worth anything at all, and if your friend wants money vs. cleaned half dollars sooner rather than later, I would suggest to simply leave them in the holders and ship them in one batch to Great Collections.

lkenefic

@OKbustchaser said:

@savitale said:
In my opinion, unless you disagree with the Details designation the only reason to crack them out would be to try to find a buyer whom you can deceive that they are not cleaned.

Not a matter of deception at all.

Question...if I crack a straight graded AU bust half out of a TPC holder do I need to say that it was once in such and such holder???? Or is that irrelevant info since it no longer is in that holder?

If past history on one hand is irrelevant then so is past history on the other. Either way, the old TPG opinion no longer exists.

I routinely cracking out straight graded type pieces to out in my 7070. In the past when I've sold, the former TPG grade label accompanies the coin. I do this with Grellman attribution cards on Large Cents too...

jmlanzaf

@OKbustchaser said:

@savitale said:
In my opinion, unless you disagree with the Details designation the only reason to crack them out would be to try to find a buyer whom you can deceive that they are not cleaned.

Not a matter of deception at all.

Question...if I crack a straight graded AU bust half out of a TPC holder do I need to say that it was once in such and such holder???? Or is that irrelevant info since it no longer is in that holder?

If past history on one hand is irrelevant then so is past history on the other. Either way, the old TPG opinion no longer exists.

It's not "irrelevant" it's just questionable. I may or may not believe you when you say your coin used to be in a PCGS AU holder.

If you are NOT trying to be deceptive, why would you remove it from the holder? The buyer can always free the coin if he wants. But the only reason to crack it out is if you don't want the buyer to know it is in an AU details holder. That is the veritable definition of deceptive.

OKbustchaser

@jmlanzaf said:

It's not "irrelevant" it's just questionable. I may or may not believe you when you say your coin used to be in a PCGS AU holder.

If you are NOT trying to be deceptive, why would you remove it from the holder? The buyer can always free the coin if he wants. But the only reason to crack it out is if you don't want the buyer to know it is in an AU details holder. That is the veritable definition of deceptive.

The same reason I immediately crack out straight graded coins as soon as I agree to purchase them. I prefer to view them raw.

ARCO

@OKbustchaser said:
The same reason I immediately crack out straight graded coins as soon as I agree to purchase them. I prefer to view them raw.

Yes, you are collector. The OP is representing someone who wants to sell these coins, not view them raw. Cracking them out will not serve that purpose.

I have sold raw cleaned coins and holdered cleaned coins. The holdered cleaned coins sell better.

OKbustchaser

@ARCO said:

@OKbustchaser said:
The same reason I immediately crack out straight graded coins as soon as I agree to purchase them. I prefer to view them raw.

Yes, you are collector. The OP is representing someone who wants to sell these coins, not view them raw. Cracking them out will not serve that purpose.

I have sold raw cleaned coins and holdered cleaned coins. The holdered cleaned coins sell better.

Never having sold holdered coins--cleaned or otherwise--I can make no prediction as to which way would result in the best price. I merely maintain that selling them raw in no way means that the seller is being deceitful. Instead, he is selling a raw coin. The fact that at one time in the past it might have been a holder--regardless of straight grade or problem is now moot. That opinion no longer exists.

jmlanzaf

@OKbustchaser said:

@jmlanzaf said:

It's not "irrelevant" it's just questionable. I may or may not believe you when you say your coin used to be in a PCGS AU holder.

If you are NOT trying to be deceptive, why would you remove it from the holder? The buyer can always free the coin if he wants. But the only reason to crack it out is if you don't want the buyer to know it is in an AU details holder. That is the veritable definition of deceptive.

The same reason I immediately crack out straight graded coins as soon as I agree to purchase them. I prefer to view them raw.

You're not viewing them in this case, you are SELLING them.

jonruns

GC

philographer

Thanks “good friend”—for the shaft!