I can see commercial shows not supporting authors, but the ANA is different - non-profit, speaks for the public interest and the health of the hobby. There is ample reason for the ANA to create space for authors.
As for coin shows not being "a place to BS," the fact is, that's 90% of the discussion at any show.
Pittsburgh is not a hot spot for coins. It is not easy to get to especially for west coast people. As a Gov I was never for ANY Mid Winter shows. The dealers at Baltimore want to do Vegas because they see more action in a 27 table show.
Someone should do a survey, which is a better show-FUN or Summer ANA? ANA is not what it used to be.
I take a table at Mid Winter out of feeling I must-and then every time I ask why did I?
Well heck! Hold the next one in a fallow soybean field near Lebanon, Kansas. That's just about the geographic center of the contiguous US. Folks can sleep in the barn or maybe an empty bean silo.....Equally easy to get to from either coast or Chicago.
@PTVETTER said:
The west coast is not easy to get to from the East and the west coast appears more expensive!
And that type of thinking is why many of us on the west coast aren't too happy with the ANA or many of the shows (and/or lack of dealers that deign to come out here).
I (we?) appreciate the ones that do and don't think it is too much of a hassle.
@FSF said:
I'm confused. Why are people counting down the number of tables available like it's the remaining number of coins available for sale from the US Mint for the latest "limited" commemorative coin.
A show like this should have been sold out by now.
@FSF said:
I'm confused. Why are people counting down the number of tables available like it's the remaining number of coins available for sale from the US Mint for the latest "limited" commemorative coin.
When a show has been hot, it has usually sold out well in advance....years ago, there were posts on the forums here about dealers not getting tables at some shows because they were all sold out....well in advance of the show itself. The "you snooze you lose" scenario.
So, the fact that a "major" show is NOT sold out yet.....that isn't a great sign for that show. Either dealers are burned out from traveling and taking a break (or from the weather), or they don't see the expenses of doing the show to be worth what they think they could make. Going to a show is more than just the expense of the table, particularly if you are coming from out of town. That's all taken into account by the dealers before they "rent" the table at a show.
I forget who it was, but some years ago, I think someone (a dealer) broke down the expenses they considered when they decided to attend a show or not. Some expenses were very easy to realize (like flight, hotel, food) and then some were there but not everyone may have realized it if they hadn't had to deal with it before (like setup fees, renting equipment (lighting, cases, etc). It added up very quickly and usually dwarfed the table fee very well.
Yeah, It's pretty rare when the other expenses are less than the cost of a table. The only ones for me are those which are closer to home and I score a good hotel deal online.
The 1 problem with ANA shows is they are close to pricing themselves out of the show business in today's market. I've done the last 2 Pittsburg shows but won't be doing this one. Part is the cost of the table and the other is driving home comfortably in 1 day as I do not stop on the way home from a show. The last Pittsburg show liked to killed me as just out of town their was construction zone that took 3 hours to go 10 miles.
@FSF said:
I'm confused. Why are people counting down the number of tables available like it's the remaining number of coins available for sale from the US Mint for the latest "limited" commemorative coin.
When a show has been hot, it has usually sold out well in advance....years ago, there were posts on the forums here about dealers not getting tables at some shows because they were all sold out....well in advance of the show itself. The "you snooze you lose" scenario.
So, the fact that a "major" show is NOT sold out yet.....that isn't a great sign for that show. Either dealers are burned out from traveling and taking a break (or from the weather), or they don't see the expenses of doing the show to be worth what they think they could make. Going to a show is more than just the expense of the table, particularly if you are coming from out of town. That's all taken into account by the dealers before they "rent" the table at a show.
I forget who it was, but some years ago, I think someone (a dealer) broke down the expenses they considered when they decided to attend a show or not. Some expenses were very easy to realize (like flight, hotel, food) and then some were there but not everyone may have realized it if they hadn't had to deal with it before (like setup fees, renting equipment (lighting, cases, etc). It added up very quickly and usually dwarfed the table fee very well.
A show like this should have been sold out by now.
I have been saying for years that there are too many dealers and too many shows, this would sort of bear that out. to my way of thinking it isn't that this ANA Show is falling out of favor or is somehow lacking, there are just too many shows and sometimes hard choices need to be made.
with that said, i think it will probably sell out or be close to it. another question: does anyone know if there are more/less tables at this show than usual??
I would wager it's the same from my recollection of attending. Can't guarantee it though.
@keets said: A show like this should have been sold out by now.
I have been saying for years that there are too many dealers and too many shows, this would sort of bear that out. to my way of thinking it isn't that this ANA Show is falling out of favor or is somehow lacking, there are just too many shows and sometimes hard choices need to be made.
with that said, i think it will probably sell out or be close to it. another question: does anyone know if there are more/less tables at this show than usual??
@FSF said:
I get that this show was expected to have been sold out, as most of these regional/national shows usually have been for decades. The part that confuses me is that any of us would bother counting down every remaining table and monitor each passing sale. Is it really that big of a deal? As for the concept of a big show not selling out, I think this is just a beginning of the trend and further testament to the weakness of the overall coin market.
Could be a statement of "weakness" to the overall coin market, but, maybe not. It could also be a testament to the growing "strength" of buying/selling online (lower costs for all involved to a large degree) versus a large show that probably 90% of the dealers/collectors have to spend money to travel to (which would come from the coin buying budget )
@FSF said:
I get that this show was expected to have been sold out, as most of these regional/national shows usually have been for decades. The part that confuses me is that any of us would bother counting down every remaining table and monitor each passing sale. Is it really that big of a deal? As for the concept of a big show not selling out, I think this is just a beginning of the trend and further testament to the weakness of the overall coin market.
Yeah, and the fact that almost none of the coins I buy are from shows isn't helping things.
@FSF said:
I get that this show was expected to have been sold out, as most of these regional/national shows usually have been for decades. The part that confuses me is that any of us would bother counting down every remaining table and monitor each passing sale. Is it really that big of a deal? As for the concept of a big show not selling out, I think this is just a beginning of the trend and further testament to the weakness of the overall coin market.
Could be a statement of "weakness" to the overall coin market, but, maybe not. It could also be a testament to the growing "strength" of buying/selling online (lower costs for all involved to a large degree) versus a large show that probably 90% of the dealers/collectors have to spend money to travel to (which would come from the coin buying budget )
Just to follow up my own point on this....
Today, I went to a local show...PNNA in Tukwila (Seattle). Counted as one of the better shows in the area. I bought NOTHING.
ZIP.
Sure, I saw a few nice coins (few and far between) but ask was way too much on virtually all of them, imho. More power to the sellers if they do get those prices. I don't begrudge them that. Just won't get it from me at this stage in time. Market isn't there, my desire isn't there.
Yet, I do still buy coins online. So, online gets more of my money than local. 10-15 years ago, that was really flipped around.
Well, as of this post the ANA still has 12 tables available per their
web site. As with most large shows get there the first day or two
or you will be disappointed. I hope that those that attend we will
have some interesting reports. Have Fun and take the family.
Comments
There are still 25 tables available. There are some in each of the 4 price categories. Only 3 1/2 weeks to go.
Can someone provide a link to the dealers that are already signed up and will be there??
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I can see commercial shows not supporting authors, but the ANA is different - non-profit, speaks for the public interest and the health of the hobby. There is ample reason for the ANA to create space for authors.
As for coin shows not being "a place to BS," the fact is, that's 90% of the discussion at any show.
http://www.expocad.com/host/fx/ana/2019pit/exfx.html#floorplan
Drop down list and floor map at this point in time.
Pittsburgh is not a hot spot for coins. It is not easy to get to especially for west coast people. As a Gov I was never for ANY Mid Winter shows. The dealers at Baltimore want to do Vegas because they see more action in a 27 table show.
Someone should do a survey, which is a better show-FUN or Summer ANA? ANA is not what it used to be.
I take a table at Mid Winter out of feeling I must-and then every time I ask why did I?
The west coast is not easy to get to from the East and the west coast appears more expensive!
Well heck! Hold the next one in a fallow soybean field near Lebanon, Kansas. That's just about the geographic center of the contiguous US. Folks can sleep in the barn or maybe an empty bean silo.....Equally easy to get to from either coast or Chicago.
At this time they have 20 tables left with 20 days till the show.
And that type of thinking is why many of us on the west coast aren't too happy with the ANA or many of the shows (and/or lack of dealers that deign to come out here).
I (we?) appreciate the ones that do and don't think it is too much of a hassle.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
There are 15 tables left with 2 weeks to go. Tables are still available in all four price points.
DING! DING! DING!
We have a winner!
The rumor is that next year's Atlanta show will be the last of its kind.
A show like this should have been sold out by now.
Between the "no shows" and "unsold tables", 15 is about
the same number Balt./Whit. had on Thurs. and Fri. a couple
of weeks ago.
When a show has been hot, it has usually sold out well in advance....years ago, there were posts on the forums here about dealers not getting tables at some shows because they were all sold out....well in advance of the show itself. The "you snooze you lose" scenario.
So, the fact that a "major" show is NOT sold out yet.....that isn't a great sign for that show. Either dealers are burned out from traveling and taking a break (or from the weather), or they don't see the expenses of doing the show to be worth what they think they could make. Going to a show is more than just the expense of the table, particularly if you are coming from out of town. That's all taken into account by the dealers before they "rent" the table at a show.
I forget who it was, but some years ago, I think someone (a dealer) broke down the expenses they considered when they decided to attend a show or not. Some expenses were very easy to realize (like flight, hotel, food) and then some were there but not everyone may have realized it if they hadn't had to deal with it before (like setup fees, renting equipment (lighting, cases, etc). It added up very quickly and usually dwarfed the table fee very well.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Yeah, It's pretty rare when the other expenses are less than the cost of a table. The only ones for me are those which are closer to home and I score a good hotel deal online.
The 1 problem with ANA shows is they are close to pricing themselves out of the show business in today's market. I've done the last 2 Pittsburg shows but won't be doing this one. Part is the cost of the table and the other is driving home comfortably in 1 day as I do not stop on the way home from a show. The last Pittsburg show liked to killed me as just out of town their was construction zone that took 3 hours to go 10 miles.
A show like this should have been sold out by now.
I have been saying for years that there are too many dealers and too many shows, this would sort of bear that out. to my way of thinking it isn't that this ANA Show is falling out of favor or is somehow lacking, there are just too many shows and sometimes hard choices need to be made.
with that said, i think it will probably sell out or be close to it. another question: does anyone know if there are more/less tables at this show than usual??
I would wager it's the same from my recollection of attending. Can't guarantee it though.
Could be a statement of "weakness" to the overall coin market, but, maybe not. It could also be a testament to the growing "strength" of buying/selling online (lower costs for all involved to a large degree) versus a large show that probably 90% of the dealers/collectors have to spend money to travel to (which would come from the coin buying budget
)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Yeah, and the fact that almost none of the coins I buy are from shows isn't helping things.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
An option is to hold smaller, higher quality coin shows. Equivalent to the juried antique shows.
Great... you think the NGC vs. PCGS wars are bad, wait until you see the battles over who is on the selection jury...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I think show expenses just keep going up and up
Table high fees are not helping either!
Just to follow up my own point on this....
Today, I went to a local show...PNNA in Tukwila (Seattle). Counted as one of the better shows in the area. I bought NOTHING.
ZIP.
Sure, I saw a few nice coins (few and far between) but ask was way too much on virtually all of them, imho. More power to the sellers if they do get those prices. I don't begrudge them that. Just won't get it from me at this stage in time. Market isn't there, my desire isn't there.
Yet, I do still buy coins online. So, online gets more of my money than local. 10-15 years ago, that was really flipped around.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Well, as of this post the ANA still has 12 tables available per their
web site. As with most large shows get there the first day or two
or you will be disappointed. I hope that those that attend we will
have some interesting reports. Have Fun and take the family.
I hope I am not disappointed going to the show Saturday morning. Going with my 7 year old, he is excited about going to the kids event at 9 am.
The show opens later today. There are 11 bourse tables available and one Club table. Don't believe that I have ever seen that before.
A shame but what can you do if there are open tables.