@ChrisH821 said:
Would there be buyers at the $12k level or have the (competitive)registry sets been satisfied?
You never know. Ever try selling a registry quality coin? Many chasing registry sets want to force you to auction it to find out at least for the mid 20th century stuff where there is a good chance the prices will have plummeted.
Unless it Golds, this will only add a few bucks to the coin. NOT 11K.
Actually, I would bet that a 67CAC and a 67+ no CAC might be pretty close in price
No chance. A 67 CAC on a $500 coin isn't going to fetch anywhere near five figures. The green bean isn't magical despite what some here believe (comment not targeted at you).
Hard to say as there is a big gap on that coin. BUT, in most prices I watch, the CAC means more than the +. They seem to interpret the + as a no-shot upgrade and the CAC as a near guaranteed upgrade.
@blitzdude said:
Seems like you just paid to have a coin downgraded. Why so eager to pay for chance to downgrade again?
I think he did great . Lucky it did not go from NGC MS67 to PCGS MS66 or even MS65 . Not uncommon for NGC coins to get lowered 2 grades by PCGS , granted deservedly so .
It would be VERY unusual for a 67CAC to not cross within a half grade.
It would be VERY unusual for a 67CAC to not cross within a half grade.
It was not cac coin . It was NGC 67* .All in house NGC opinion/Grade . If i remember correctly in the Pogue sale of Half Dimes and Dimes there was 1 coin in NGC MS Draped Bust series that got down graded 2 whole points by PCGS . I believe it was a six figure coin . YIKES !!!
You are incorrect, the OP stated earlier in the thread that this was CAC beaned, step back from the Kool-Aid.
It would be VERY unusual for a 67CAC to not cross within a half grade.
It was not cac coin . It was NGC 67* .All in house NGC opinion/Grade . If i remember correctly in the Pogue sale of Half Dimes and Dimes there was 1 coin in NGC MS Draped Bust series that got down graded 2 whole points by PCGS . I believe it was a six figure coin . YIKES !!!
You are incorrect, the OP stated earlier in the thread that this was CAC beaned, step back from the Kool-Aid.
That is correct. It was 67* CAC. And the $12,000 price he quoted was for a 67+ CAC, by the way.
Frankly, a CAC coin should always cross (if not upgrade) otherwise what's the point of the CAC?
@oih82w8 said:
I don't see what all the hubbub is about...really, I don't see any images!
You don't go for the Trueview when you are seeking an upgrade. There was a case (back in the day) where there were 9 images of the same 1935 half dollar at MS67. Don't want that.
When you get you coin in maxed out plastic, then you do the Trueview.
So, basically, you feel the graders you got are stupid?
They cannot see that your coin should have graded higher last (week) but now is a top pop?
Maybe we need A Grade Accountability Standard:
Whereas, if a coin is resumitted to the TPG that previously graded the coin, and no environmental damage, etc. has occurred, and grades higher or lower that what is one the plastic (or was on the plastic), then the graders and reviewers shall be fired, and all coins ever graded by them shall be voided.
These threads just tell me that (TPG) graders are stupid and given enough shots from half court, you will eventually sink a shot, and then state that all 365 previous shots were in error, and the 1 time is an accurate depiction of your shooting ability.
It tells me not to waste my time or money on ANY TPG coin because the graders are stupid, and will bump up the grade if submitted enough times. This gradeflation / resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit tells me it is getting closer to the time to give up collecting.
I'm told "Don't buy raw, probably fake, altered, whizzed, over graded by the dealer, cleaned, etc.
I'm told "Don't buy the plastic, as the grade arbitrary changes, based on what day of the week it is submitted"
I'm told "Don't buy CAC, it's just 1 opinion, etc."
@Wabbit2313 said:
There are a couple areas that would keep it from a 67+. (And probably out of a 67 holder if sent back in raw)
.
You missed the marks on the neck in two different places. The coin looks like a color bumped 65 or 66. It is still a nice coin, but I agree with your assessment that an upgrade is unlikely.
@oih82w8 said:
I don't see what all the hubbub is about...really, I don't see any images!
You don't go for the Trueview when you are seeking an upgrade. There was a case (back in the day) where there were 9 images of the same 1935 half dollar at MS67. Don't want that.
When you get you coin in maxed out plastic, then you do the Trueview.
Laura fixed that sort of, but unfortunately she destroyed Coin Facts and most of its utility in the process. Wouldn't the easier approach have been to ask Phil to kill off photos as requested or create an automated line of code that would handle such requests automatically? But hey, what do I know? I'm just one of the "coin weenies" or "chatroom geniuses" as she refers to sarcastically.
@jmlanzaf said:
Hard to say as there is a big gap on that coin. BUT, in most prices I watch, the CAC means more than the +. They seem to interpret the + as a no-shot upgrade and the CAC as a near guaranteed upgrade.
Not on a top pop widget (and I do not use that term in a derogatory way here).
I've seen just enough of the regrade game to know that I don't know anything. What follows is just my simple opinion, informed by a SMALL bit of experience and perhaps a little conjecture.
How long you wait to resubmit probably doesn't mean much. It all comes down to who is in the grading room on a particular day, their particular subset of human biases, and how they're feeling/seeing/focusing when your particular box of coins comes up. I've seen coins upgrade on the 3rd try within a single show. I've seen coins that have been tried 5 or 6 times get sold and upgrade on the very next try when submitted by a complete newbie. There are a few theories that some players believe in:
More experienced graders are more likely to "go out on a limb" and assign higher grades
More experienced graders are often present at big shows for walk-through or show grading
"Setting up" a submission might work. Find a couple of borderline over-graded MS67 coins to submit alongside this one. Even better, find a really doggy MS67+ to submit with it. In other words, force the graders to see that your target coin is better. People will go to great lengths to get a plus or an upgrade when the reward justifies the risk. Obviously to do this you need access to setup coins. You can either buy them, already own them, or "rent" them from someone else. The big players can do this with the inventory they have laying around the office. Incidentally, it's kind of funny when one of the "setup" coins upgrades and the target coin doesn't.
It's easy to make a plus coin when the value isn't much different (generic date MS65 Morgan, for example). When the coin gets near top pop (making an MS68+ Morgan, for example) the game is MUCH different, and the graders tighten up their game a little.
You say in your original post that you overpaid for it. If you really did, throwing good money after bad is only going to make your position worse.
Realize that your competition in the grade/regrade game has ridden this bull many times and doesn't hesitate to put down real money on dozens or even hundreds of coins every single submission. Some folks have tried certain coins a dozen times or more. The fact that you are asking the question implies that you might be sorta new to the rodeo circuit.
In the end, it still comes down to the coin. If the coin really deserves it, you have a chance, but it might take a few tries. If the coin doesn't, you can submit it 100 times and you'll do nothing but slowly transfer funds from your pocket to theirs.
I would love to see the dumpster full of broken and empty slabs that result from show grading at FUN or the Summer ANA. Sometimes coins live in their new holders for only a few hours before being run through the mill again.
The net result of all of this, over time, is gradeflation. I've gravitated to the point where I just want to buy nice coins at reasonable prices and keep them and enjoy them for what they are. Not once have I ever had a coin upgrade and come back looking any better than it did when I sent it in.
Finally, a really PQ coin in a 67 holder will often sell for about the same price as a barely-there coin in a 67+. Just getting the number on the slab does not always equate to a big profit. There are lots of smart people playing the game and real-world pricing often reflects the coin more than the numbers on the slab.
@bolivarshagnasty said:
With the volume they do, no one will recognize it coming back through. Sending it in for reconsideration? Let the gradeflation begin!
Not reconsideration, but regrade. No old holder/insert to preserve and no additional fees. @cnncoins said it first
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Keep in mind too that the $12,000 upgrade might be the result of a "top pop" being a lone coin with 1000 other coins a half grade lower. Many, many of those 1000 might be resubmitted coins where the population report doesn't reflect the fact that many were re-submitted.
If the day ever comes where the re-submitters ever surrender the old inserts to correct the actual population, that would tend to dilute the value of the top pop, no?
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
Comments
You never know. Ever try selling a registry quality coin? Many chasing registry sets want to force you to auction it to find out at least for the mid 20th century stuff where there is a good chance the prices will have plummeted.
Hard to say as there is a big gap on that coin. BUT, in most prices I watch, the CAC means more than the +. They seem to interpret the + as a no-shot upgrade and the CAC as a near guaranteed upgrade.
It would be VERY unusual for a 67CAC to not cross within a half grade.
You are incorrect, the OP stated earlier in the thread that this was CAC beaned, step back from the Kool-Aid.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
That is correct. It was 67* CAC. And the $12,000 price he quoted was for a 67+ CAC, by the way.
Frankly, a CAC coin should always cross (if not upgrade) otherwise what's the point of the CAC?
You don't go for the Trueview when you are seeking an upgrade. There was a case (back in the day) where there were 9 images of the same 1935 half dollar at MS67. Don't want that.
When you get you coin in maxed out plastic, then you do the Trueview.
What a lovely coin!
.
There are a couple areas that would keep it from a 67+. (And probably out of a 67 holder if sent back in raw)
.
Still a lovely coin! May we see the one you ARE talking about? I see the one I posted is brand new graded/regraded.
With the revised Coinfacts format how do you look up Trueviews without a cert number?
Debbie Downer here
So, basically, you feel the graders you got are stupid?
They cannot see that your coin should have graded higher last (week) but now is a top pop?
Maybe we need A Grade Accountability Standard:
Whereas, if a coin is resumitted to the TPG that previously graded the coin, and no environmental damage, etc. has occurred, and grades higher or lower that what is one the plastic (or was on the plastic), then the graders and reviewers shall be fired, and all coins ever graded by them shall be voided.
These threads just tell me that (TPG) graders are stupid and given enough shots from half court, you will eventually sink a shot, and then state that all 365 previous shots were in error, and the 1 time is an accurate depiction of your shooting ability.
It tells me not to waste my time or money on ANY TPG coin because the graders are stupid, and will bump up the grade if submitted enough times. This gradeflation / resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit resubmit tells me it is getting closer to the time to give up collecting.
I'm told "Don't buy raw, probably fake, altered, whizzed, over graded by the dealer, cleaned, etc.
I'm told "Don't buy the plastic, as the grade arbitrary changes, based on what day of the week it is submitted"
I'm told "Don't buy CAC, it's just 1 opinion, etc."
The coin must be resubmitted until you get the grade you want.
So says Steve Contursi!
I read then all, as should anyone who wants to avoid either repeating comments or making mistakes, as you did.
You missed the marks on the neck in two different places. The coin looks like a color bumped 65 or 66. It is still a nice coin, but I agree with your assessment that an upgrade is unlikely.
Laura fixed that sort of, but unfortunately she destroyed Coin Facts and most of its utility in the process. Wouldn't the easier approach have been to ask Phil to kill off photos as requested or create an automated line of code that would handle such requests automatically? But hey, what do I know? I'm just one of the "coin weenies" or "chatroom geniuses" as she refers to sarcastically.
Not on a top pop widget (and I do not use that term in a derogatory way here).
Don't blame the messenger, if your too busy to read the thread then perhaps you should refrain from making statements without knowing the facts.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Ownership adds a point.
They are right. Just not sure about the +. Worth a try I guess. I wish you the best.
I've seen just enough of the regrade game to know that I don't know anything. What follows is just my simple opinion, informed by a SMALL bit of experience and perhaps a little conjecture.
How long you wait to resubmit probably doesn't mean much. It all comes down to who is in the grading room on a particular day, their particular subset of human biases, and how they're feeling/seeing/focusing when your particular box of coins comes up. I've seen coins upgrade on the 3rd try within a single show. I've seen coins that have been tried 5 or 6 times get sold and upgrade on the very next try when submitted by a complete newbie. There are a few theories that some players believe in:
Realize that your competition in the grade/regrade game has ridden this bull many times and doesn't hesitate to put down real money on dozens or even hundreds of coins every single submission. Some folks have tried certain coins a dozen times or more. The fact that you are asking the question implies that you might be sorta new to the rodeo circuit.
In the end, it still comes down to the coin. If the coin really deserves it, you have a chance, but it might take a few tries. If the coin doesn't, you can submit it 100 times and you'll do nothing but slowly transfer funds from your pocket to theirs.
I would love to see the dumpster full of broken and empty slabs that result from show grading at FUN or the Summer ANA. Sometimes coins live in their new holders for only a few hours before being run through the mill again.
The net result of all of this, over time, is gradeflation. I've gravitated to the point where I just want to buy nice coins at reasonable prices and keep them and enjoy them for what they are. Not once have I ever had a coin upgrade and come back looking any better than it did when I sent it in.
Finally, a really PQ coin in a 67 holder will often sell for about the same price as a barely-there coin in a 67+. Just getting the number on the slab does not always equate to a big profit. There are lots of smart people playing the game and real-world pricing often reflects the coin more than the numbers on the slab.
Not reconsideration, but regrade. No old holder/insert to preserve and no additional fees. @cnncoins said it first
Keep in mind too that the $12,000 upgrade might be the result of a "top pop" being a lone coin with 1000 other coins a half grade lower. Many, many of those 1000 might be resubmitted coins where the population report doesn't reflect the fact that many were re-submitted.
If the day ever comes where the re-submitters ever surrender the old inserts to correct the actual population, that would tend to dilute the value of the top pop, no?