Belichick would have 2 less rings without Brady.
Coinstartled
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He was sure lucky to meet up with the Michigan QB.
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I almost feel bad responding to this because I know everyone here is probably getting tired of all the Pats hoopla. Brady was a 1 in a billion plus shot that will probably never ever happen again. I think the probability of mimicking the luck that surrounds the Tom Brady/Patriots getting lucky with such a random draft pick is equivalent to hitting the lottery, getting struck bylightning and getting eaten by a shark in the same day 😂. What is your analysis on the 2 rings they wouldn’t have without Brady? I feel Brady is directly responsible for all 6
Luck favors the prepared.
Andy Reid, although not nearly as astute as Bill Belichick overall, seems to have the same "luck" with finding quarterbacks who can be coached up and win football games.
After a while, one must begin to ponder that perhaps "luck" has little to do with it.
I'll let the thread percolate a bit before jumping back in.
like a week or 20 seconds ?
Brady is in a class all by himself. I went to school with the first Patriot quarterback Butch Songin so I have been a fan from before they were the New England Patriots.
The question that rarely if ever gets asked is how many more rings might Belichick have if he had a more talented QB than Brady?
Is it coaches who make players great, or players who make coaches great?
It's like what comes first, the chicken or the egg?
BTW, the correct answer is the egg.....
.....and coaches are the egg
Looks like an hour.
Belichick is considered the GOAT...or at least the best of the generation. He would have had talent at QB. With Stafford or Romo type talent at the position he wins four. Favre or Brees talent, he wins 5. Peyton or Favre talent he is good for six...maybe seven.
Cannot overlook the fact that Brady is on a team somewhere else in NFL land and takes two or three rings himself.
Steve....the Chicken came first.
Coaches don't make great players. The player has to have the talent to start with....then it can be refined some.
I have often thought about starting a "What IF" thread on this, but since you brought it up here:
If Brady would have gone to Dallas and Romo had gone to New England......Pats fans would still not have a SB and Dallas would have another 5 or 8. So be thankful you Pats fans you would still be Ring less and I would be beyond estatic!!!!
To paraphrase Giselle, the QB can't catch the ball.
Belichik was a head coach without Brady and he had zero rings and a crummy record.
He was 36-44 as head coach in Cleveland.
In 2000 before Brady, the Patriots were 5-11.
In 2001, before Brady they were 0-2, then Brady took over, went 11-3 and the rest is history.
Thats six plus seasons as a head coach to show he could win without Brady...and he didn't even come close.
Hate to bring you back to reality but Tom Brady is a better QB than all those QB’s, I am ok with Manning and Brees in the discussion and agree arguments can be made for both those guys in comparison to Brady but let’s be serious Belichek would not have done any better with Manning or Brees but to say he would have won 6 or 7 with Favre is flat out stupid. Favre was a gamer and a gunslinger and had just as much talent if not more around him on both sides of the ball in Green Bay.
8 with Romo
This is going as planned.
While in Cleveland, Belichick coached for the diseased owner named Art Modell, who i think most of us are familiar with. Vince Lombardi couldn't win coaching under those circumstances during those years. So any example of that tenure with the Browns, equating with Belichick's lack of talent as a head coach is dubious at best.
Belichick actually had pretty damn good success in other coaching positions for other teams for many years. Under Robert Kraft, Belichick finally got the opportunity to take full advantage of his genius as a head coach. and take advantage of it he did - big time!
I was going to add Romo's name. Maybe 2 or three rings.
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If Belichik is THE reason for the Super bowls then he should have done way better than he did in Cle.. HE was abysmal, and using Art Modell as an excuse is not a good one. If using Model as your reason, then that means Kraft is the reason they won in NE
.
He also had six years to coach them up and get talent. He failed.
Other coaches had more success under Model
, so there goes that reasoning.
Also Beichik was 5-13 in New England before Brady. Brutal.
Interesting piece of trivia: who is the last Browns coach to win a playoff game?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Modell is the reason Belichik was awful as the Browns coach???
Just two years prior to Belichik's arrival in Cleveland, Bud Carson took Cleveland to the Conference championship going 9-6.
The year prior to that Schottenheimer took them to the playoffs going 10-6.
Hmmm, they didn't seem to have a problem.
If Belichik was such a genius he would not have gone 36-44, and then gone 5-13 with New England before Brady was starter.
Surely a genius could have at least gotten to .500.
The year Brady got hurt and the Patriots went 10-5 without him, that 10-5 record would rank as the 14th best Belichik/Brady record in their tenure.
So in total, Belichik's coaching record without Brady in NE was 18-19 and no playoff appearances. In Cleveland it was 36-44 and no playoff appearances.
Brady's career QB record was 207-60.
Of those three records; 18-19, 36-44, and 207-60...which two are most similar and what do they have in common??
Guess I will scratch Belichick's name from the GOAT list, even though he only needed 4 points to win the Super Bowl.
I've never stated that Brady wasn't a part of Belichick's success. Of course he was. The best general isn't going to win a battle without properly trained and motivated troops.
i'm just saying that I think that Belichick was much more instrumental in Brady's success, than Brady was in Belichick's success. I have formed that viewpoint from having watched a good number of press conferences and interviews with Belichick on Youtube. I've never heard such genius thoughts and ideas coming from any other football coach. Nobody even really close. That genius mentality certainly rubbed off on Brady and he absorbed it like a sponge.
It's actually debatable that a QB such as Marino or Elway may not have had the same success as a Brady under Belichick, because of reasons they likely weren't nearly as coachable as Brady. But perhaps a
QB who had more talent than Brady, but was just as coachable, would have had more success with Belichick than Brady. In any event we shall never know for sure.
I love that Tom Brady has 9 Super Bowl appearances winning 6 of them in 18 years and people love to chip away the credit from him, it’s a combination of frustrating, laughable, insane and just flat out ignorant. If it was Manning, Montana or Elway these same people would be giving all the credit to said QB. Belichek before Brady 0 rings, with Brady he has 6. Do any kind of gorilla math you want, the numbers are right there and they just don’t lie.
Btw we don’t have to refer to Brady as the GOAT, we can do BOAT if that makes anyone feel better 😉
So giving too much credit to the coach is taboo.
Would Brady have say 8 rings if a good coach like Knute Rockne was guiding the team?
I’m not saying that, your the one who is starting a thread about this type of conversation. The only Super Bowl I directly blame Belichek for is the Eagles loss last year, he benched the teams starting DB and watched all game as that position got torched and was too stubborn to put a healthy starter who belonged on the field in to stop the bleeding. Other than that I never say either Brady or Belichek would have won or loss more or less if it were not for one of them. FACT
Did they ever figure out why the DB was benched?
The fact is that Brady was a 6th round draft pick. And if Belichick didn't take him, who knows how far down Brady might have gone? Perhaps even undrafted?
Another fact is that Brady had one of the worst, it may have been the worst, combine performances for a QB in combine history. The videos are on Youtube. Brady looks like he might not even be athletic enough for a high school football team based on those videos. A body hardly even fit for a professional golfer, let alone a football player.
So something happened by the time Brady was picked by the Patriots, and then he was initially 4th on the Patriots QB depth chart in camp which often means for a QB, eventually getting cut. So what happened? Did Brady take some sort of magic QB enhancement pill? No, it was quite obvious to everyone other than blind love Brady fans that he was coached up by the GOAT NFL head coach, stone cold genius Bill Belichick.
Case closed.
My best friend has a lock solid contact inside the Pats organization, a guy who him and I have been out to dinner with and the facts are that that idiot Butler went out partying and was late for a bed check and might have been high.
Or we can just look back at the correct history and facts of the situation that he was behind Bledsoe on the depth chart. Bledsoe got hurt so Brady was forced into action and went on a wild ride winning the Super Bowl. Case is now officially closed due to factual information coming out
In case any Patriots fans haven't figured it out yet, I'm actually giving Brady high praise to do what he has done despite his lack of physical talent that other top QB's have.
That being said, it's very fortunate that Tom Brady got drafted by Bill Belichick. Because some other brain dead head coach may not have given Brady much of an opportunity. And being improperly coached, Brady may have developed some bad habits which perhaps he would not be able to overcome.
Belichick obviously astutely saw the heart and character that Brady has, and gave him an opportunity. Something considering those videos, i think most other head coaches wouldn't have been wise enough to notice.
I heard a rumor he slept with Steve Belicheks wife
Amazing how many ways his name can be spelled in one thread!
Patriots fans can keep making excuses for their SB loss to the Eagles two seasons ago, whining about Butler being benched and everything else under the sun.
It's not hard to figure out. Belichick thought that no way a back-up quarterback was going to beat him in the Super Bowl. So he figured he could sit Butler for violating the rules and still handily beat the Eagles.
That was Belichick's first mistake in that game, being complacent about an opponent. And then Doug Pederson simply outcoached Belichick throughout that game, and we all know it.
Patriots fans already back in Belichick bashing mode just a few hours after the parade. 🙄
I'm not sure that Patriots fans on here have spelled his name correctly in any post?
That basically says that the schools in Boston aren't very good or perhaps it's something in the water supply?
No it says autocorrect doesn't do names and no one cares how its spelled enough to memorize
That is beyond funny!!
Try spellicheck
its the 21st century its a persons responsibility to have a name that is easy to spell or get used to seeing it butchered
very easy to remember: you win lots of super bowls, you get lots of (beli)chicks
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Steve, I don’t think your discounting Brady at all I just think you give Belichek most of the credit for Brady’s success and that is where you and I differ. Belichek didn’t win with Bill O’Brien as his OC but bring in Josh McDaniels and it’s a way different story so that in itself is a counter point you and I haven’t addressed. Brady and Belichek have won with other OC’s yes so let’s just say neither Brady or Belichek deserves all the credit? But at the end of the day Brady is the one on the field making throws and decisions so MOST of the credit goes to Brady in my opinion.
Not taking anything away from Foles or the Eagles but you know deep down our chances of winning that game skyrocket with Butler on the field. That is the reality of the situation and you can bounce that around any way you want but it’s a fact and we both know it.
Or look at the title. I made sure it was correct.
well going forward everything I type will vetted by my Dimeman brand spellchecker app
Good thing that the Patriots coach's name wasn't something like Marty Schottenheimer.
This forum would be in total spellcheck disarray right now.
You know I'm just kidding around. Believe me, I've seen Eagles fans butcher the spelling of "Pederson" many times.
Yes, Belichick made a mistake. Whether it cost them the game or not, perhaps it did. We shall never know for sure.
My overall point is cut the guy some slack for crying out loud, considering all the success he has had for so many seasons.
George Patton, arguably the greatest field general in US history, made some bad mistakes on the battlefield, but not too many. And Belichick over the years, considering his tremendous success, hasn't made too many bad mistakes either.
That I will accept
Thus after many long hours and laborious details at the negotiating table, we finally have a peace treaty on this issue.
Agreed 🍻
Now we can all look forward to the Eagles winning the Super Bowl next season, and many other seasons, and then having a discussion around ten years from now about which dynasty was greater: Pederson/Wentz or Belichick/Brady?