Guess the grades of 2 Barber Half's...spin of from bashing graders Grades Posted in 1st Post
amwldcoin
Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
Guess the grades of these 2 Barber Half's
1
amwldcoin
Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
@noheadlights comments on the 1st coin:
Grade 20 I bet
I would have said 15
@treashunt comments on the 2 coins and my reply
both should be F-12
My Reply: You can keep the 2nd coin but I will buy any like the 1st that have the detail and look of the 1st!
12 and vg details.
fine
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
20 first
15 second
20-25
Vg details
F15 & F12. You need a COMPLETE liberty for VF20. Neither has that. Secondly, reverse wing feathers need more details for VF20.
F12 for both and agree with amwdcoin about the second coin. I would pass on that one regardless of grade.
15 and 12
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
F-15 and VG-10
VG and VG details. Not enough of the word "LIBERTY" to warrant a Fine grade.
Haven't looked at many graded Barber Half's have you? Please sell me any uncleaned Barber Half's that has the detail of these for VG money!
PS Many VF-20's don't have a bold Liberty like you seem to expect for a F(Especially New Orleans mint coins)!
@Tibor
https://pcgs.com/photograde/#/Barber50/Grades
20 12
20
15
Stman grade for first one. . How much?
Boath look like F12
Sold it a year ago in the holder it was in.
So did you say Grade it what ya want, I want my price?
No! I sold it on ebay with the other coin and another...pick the coin you want for my price!(pick between 3) Sold in a couple of days!
F12. VG 08
15
08
like the first coin btw
Both halves grade fine; the top one a little better than the bottom.
There is quite the range of opinions here!
well???
13 and 9
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I'll post them tomorrow! My grades are F-18 for the 1st....never seen a 15 compare and have seen graded 20's that don't measure up..... average F12 for the 2nd.
15 and 12. Nice to see you at the FUN show.
Fine 18 on first.
VG 11.5 on second
Hey I just saw 2 posts up you say 18 as well!
A LITTLE? Haha. Well the first would likely bring 2X the money as the second.
20
12
Real coin grading is not about money or assumed "value." It refers only to condition or amount of degradation from the original "as-struck" state.
It is the free market - sellers and buyers - that establishes relative value - if any.
20 and 15.
Grades Posted in 1st Post
Nice seeing you too!
And there in lies the on going debate about grading. I will say with out a doubt the 1st coin is a solid notch detail wise above the 2nd...not to mention the surfaces that usually give it a little grade bump these days!
I have an F-15 12-S bought from Manorcourtman (Chris) that got a consensus VF-35 in a GTG. I have never sent it back in.
In the post-WWII decades - before TPGs - grading handbooks concentrated on distinguishing one descriptive grade from another. All discussion of "value" was left to the market. When coin "grading" was introduced to supplement authentication, and numbers were added, a more direct assumed connection between "state of degradation" and "value" began to grow.
The presumptions expanded to some ill-defined temporal disturbance where "value" became a direct influence on what were touted as independent "grades." (TPG "grades" for 1804 dollars are the poster children of this phenomenon.) This is the root of "gradeflation" and the devastating effects of inconsistency we all see in the "grading" of coins for the past 15-20 years.
Today, a numerical "grade" is approaching meaningless noise. It is becoming smoke in a fog amid swirling snow: acrid smells among damp and cold. As in all such systemic failures, some will profit and most will experience loss.
There is no debate. The grading service is simply mistaken here on these two coins, not to mention too loose, which is in the beholder on 2 common F12 coins. So the exercise was fun.
Actually I wish that was the case on the 1st coin. Of the 53 Barber Half's in the submission, the only ones that stayed in their tomb's were a couple like this I used as examples of buy the coin, not the Plastic. Every coin in the submission was under 10 points. Biggest waste of money for me and I bruised my hammer from cracking so many coins...almost went to Home Depot and bought a band saw. I have sold all but a few at the appropriate grade and price and have not submitted since. That will change but keeping my ears glued to others I know who submit gauging their experiences. I can only hope it was a fluke and their grading standards haven't change or I own several thousand over graded coins! I submitted the at the Baltimore show in Nov. 2017 and took forever to get them back!
EDIT: The grades were not revealed when first posted so I deleted a suggestion.
Both Fine-12. IMO, the old timers would be VG-10 so they are in the ballpark. IMO, anyone who thinks these are VF needs to ….
Here is something to consider as it can be/HAS BEEN demonstrated to be true. It would make a really good discussion if someone wants to take the time to post a bunch of images.
If I take six of you and give you 20 circulated Barber 50c to place in order by grade, there would be little disagreement. If I waited a week and gave all of you the same coins again to place in order by grade, again, very little disagreement and very few changes if any (depends on how much I fine-tune the test). Now, If I wait one month and give each of you one coin at a time to grade, most of your results would make us all cringe. I might cringe at my results too.
That's what goes on at a TPGS with some of the best professional graders. They grade coins one at a time and the little fluctuations that occur result in coins as these. IMO, the top coin with the lower grade should be the higher grade by the image as it has more design detail. Could it have been net graded for something not visible in an image? For circulated, low-value coins as these, We can find stuff as this in every major TPGS slab!
Minor grade discrepancies are old news and no big deal. How much does the value change?
Either coin can be in a VG-10 or F-12 holder! Send the coins to another service one at a time and their grades may get switched! Otherwise send the top coin back for a review of the grade.
I posted this above...perhaps you should go have a look. If you will really look the 1st grade to have a complete Liberty is VF25! https://pcgs.com/photograde/#/Barber50/Grades
PS, I would love to grade your Barber Half's. I can literally post thousands of pictures of PCGS Graded Barber Half's. I can probably post 7 or 8 Pictures of 99-O's That PCGS graded F12 that are equal to the 12 above!
Also...nothing I can see to cause it to net gade! Click on the bigger picture...unless you have a big plasma monitor the picture is bigger than your computer screen
Neither of the two coins in question have full liberty's. They both have too much blending for a VF designation. So I thought fine 12. VG 08 why? Because that's the way I see them.
Have you looked at the PCGS photograde link I posted? You do have a bit to learn about how Barber Half's are graded.
PS Other than 1909's it's a rare Barber Half that has a full Liberty in any F grade. I learned this long ago...once Liberty is full all the rest of the coin is VF!
Results seem backwards to me.
What I have a bit to learn about is what I'll spend my money on, past, present and future. You need a lesson in reading comprehension.
Yes, you're right they are indeed backwards what with all the wipe lines on the F-12
Those are not wipe lines on the 12. They are light circulation scratches my photo technique amplifies! Most of my coins are better in hand than my photos. If I have a choice of glorifying a coin or making it look a little less better I choose the later!
Having the tops of the wreath fairly well outlined is a better indicator for F12/15 grades than the traditional full LIBERTY, since weakly struck coins may have letters partially missing. The bottom leaves of the wreath are mostly worn into the adjacent areas. There is a slight separation for the bottom of the face and neck and the stars will be mostly flat, with only the occasional lines visible. Wing feather detail is evident only in the deeply recessed parts, the the neck tail, and shield showing slight detail.
Now with that in mind the coin graded VG -10 is worth VF money. It's like I said; "It's just the way I saw them.
I'm not Gospel and sometimes Gospel isn't Gospel and there is; NO SUCH THING AS AN OBJECTIVE OPINION
Ladies and Gentleman "This is great fun"
I was at 12 on the top one, added a point for surfaces' eye appeal.
I was at 10 on the bottom one, deducted a point for surfaces' eye appeal.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry