What things about a coin would cause YOU to "bump" its grade?
Insider2
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There are characteristics about the condition of a coin itself and there are outside considerations that may cause a "bump" in its grade. For instance lots of folks joke that ownership raises a coin's grade.
What else can you think of that you do personally? What things do you think would make a TPGS bump a grade?
I'll post a BIG ONE later today or tomorrow that I just realized!
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If the coin is owned by a major customer it may get a bump.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Well color is the current rage and the obvious answer, however I don't like market grading I'd much prefer if TPG's just graded the condition (level of preservation) rather than telling me what they like. So short answer nothing should bump a grade.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I know the TPGs really like luster, but I used to give walkers a bump for above average strikes.
I've mentally added and removed defects to a coin to see if a current grade makes sense before. When you end up saying to yourself that coin could have a few more marks, more wear, or crappier luster and still get the assigned grade, it's time to consider the next grade up. Works the same in reverse.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Color is one obvious and very important consideration that may cause a "bump" in grade. I'm often sick at what the surface under the AT or NT actually looks like. However, as you posted: "color is the current rage." All things considered, eye appeal is the package that sets the coin's desirability (value).
Absolute (and relative) rarity gives a bump, I think it shouldn't, but it does. The number of AG 16-D dimes I've seen in G holders tells me it isn't an accident. I had an AG 1799 large cent that the next owner got into a full VG holder.
Nothing "bumps" the grade. The coin's grade is what it is. Now MANY factors (color, strike, ownership) bump the coins value.
nothing.
if the coin has a nice strike, color, [anything else], value it higher and pay more. i wouldnt bump the grade for such considerations.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
Agree, and add rarity and provenance to factors that can possibly add value.
But Grade can only go down. I start at 70, and then deduct points until I get to "I'd buy it as a ______" number, and that's my grade.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
dang, @okbustchaser beat me to it.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
Yikes!! Now, how do you think folks signify a coin's value today? By Its GRADE!
PS @TradesWithChops You are lucky he did or this post would be directed to you also!
It has just become VERY OBVIOUS to me that a coin's value and grade have become so intertwined that any solution to arriving at a closer consensuses to a typical coins grade WILL FOREVER BE IMPOSSIBLE! So Sad.
No, they don't. If grade and value were synonymous then ALL coins of the same denomination/date/MM of the same grade would sell for the same price...obviously they aren't.
Grade is only one factor of value. There are many others.
So Sad...
You're right. It IS sad how TPGs have diluted the definitions of coin grades over the years in their eternal quest to price coins rather than grade them
I don't think this question can possibly have one or even several answers.
There are too many head scratchers, both ways, on the grading scale.
Too often it's "Wow, that's under-graded." or "Dang, I wish I could get grades like that."
Although I do think it's a great topic to think about.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
2 coins with the same strike and the same surface imperfections gets a bump from me if one of the coins has booming luster. I like color but it has very little to do with grade when I look at equal coins and I hardly ever pay extra for a color coin.
Luster is King in my book.
Ken
This is too baggy for a 66+
I'm sure it got bumped by PCGS for eye appeal
I almost sent it back after receiving it but it was just too pretty.
Sometimes toning doesn't show up well on True-View gold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UcNbPbu9u8
That is the case here but trust me it is flourescent orange & green.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Skip to 4:30}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}]
My Saint Set
I think originality and unmessed with surfaces are something that would make a TPGS bump a coin’s grade.
For instance, I’ve seen Bust Halves (what I collect) that have inferior eye appeal IMO but with incredible originality receive a 58+ when another coin has everything (luster, strike, great surfaces, and toning) fail to get a 58+.
Eye appeal IMO is by far the biggest factor to cause a TPGS to bump up a coin’s grade....and of course, it’s the only subjective one of all the factors that make up a coin’s grade. It takes into account luster, surface quality, strike, and of course toning.
But I believe originality and unmessed with surfaces definitely gets the attention of the graders.
Dave
I tend to agree, but view it as the original coin doesn't lose the points that the futzed with coin does, rather than the originality "adding" points. All grades below 70 are "Net" grades: net this much wear, net that many marks and how big they are and where they ate located, net off more if its been wiped, scrubbed, or a hole drilled in it, etc.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I can definitely see your point of view.
Dave
Time, if you don't like the grade wait a year or 2 and send it back in. If the past 20 years are any indication it will jump a grade or 3.
Personally I don't "bump" anything, have to grade them for what they are....exception: toned silver then bump that ugly dog lower, or a quick dip. lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
A mistake. A "grade" should be an objective assessment based entirely on open, stable standards. Only a mistake can cause a "bump up or down."
I thought about this for a bit, color, strike, etc etc, then thought.............huh? A grade is a grade....a bump is for the buyer's mindset.
bob
In the case of high end rarities, (1804 dollars, and the like), it seems that coins get "bumped" to adhere to the ranking set by previous coins! I'm no expert in the field, but one often hears that they are ALL over-graded.....
But I kind of think that color, strike, luster, marks, (whatever), are mashed together to decide on a grade. None of them "bump" the grade. They are taken into account, and the + an - of each are a factor in the final grade.
What makes it LOOK like a "bump" to those of us looking from the outside is that some of us don't value one or more of those attributes the same as the TPG graders or standards do. So we say, "I guess the color bumped it up a grade", just to reconcile the grade in our heads.
Ain't none of us who hasn't looked at, and passed on, dozens of coins in a grade before finding "the one" that matches our own preferred mix of attributes.
@Baley said: "I tend to agree, but view it as the original coin doesn't lose the points that the futzed with coin does, rather than the originality "adding" points. All grades below 70 are "Net" grades: net this much wear, net that many marks and how big they are and where they ate located, net off more if its been wiped, scrubbed, or a hole drilled in it, etc."
Gee, I've been grading coins all this time and never knew I was a "net grader!"
While the word "net" by definition is used to describe something after deductions, IMO, this is the nonsense, I'm sorry, the misuse of a word ("net") in numismatics describing the application of a system of ACTUAL NET GRADING that requires time be spent in classes reeducating young collectors who regurgitate this philosophical grading crap stuff.
Yes, grades start at Perfect 70 and decrease from there. Therefore, all grading is considered net grading and blah, blah, blah! LOL. From my perspective, There is no net anything involved unless someone is placing a value on a coin or a practitioner of EAC grading. You are correct and I'll continue being ignorant.
@drddm said: "I think originality and unmessed with surfaces are something that would make a TPGS bump a coin’s grade."
Yes, THIS hit me like a rock when I started to analyze why I graded a brilliant, flashy, 100% original, WLH
MS-66 wonder coin with the number of imperfections I should normally consider for an MS-65. So something I never gave a though to inspired this discussion.
Except when it is a slider AU with exceptional eye appeal then you can add points to bring it into a MS holder.
@Insider2
Nope, if it's that pretty, it never went below 60 in the first place, even though it's not Mint State. It's time to drop "the line" that never made sense in rhe first place.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
..........stiiiiiiiiiiiill waaaaaaaaaaiting for the answer ............................
The ones I see a lot are the strike designation "just misses" that get bumped for being almost there, although I would not give a bump for that.
I think the grade is "what it is" and then the free market will then determine if it should be priced higher because of screaming luster, "originality" or a superior strike, cool toning, etc.
I agree that change is needed. We should stop making confusing changes to the scale we have and either adhere to it or abandon it wholesale and start over including using different nomenclature. As is, silently tweaking or ignoring the standards is merely kicking the can down the road and confusing the markets. People don't even trust the grade services so now we have a service to review the grading services. It is truly insane.
If the coin is undergraded, I might bump its grade.
If eye appeal is a factor on grading, then grading is not based on wear. This video only confuses the matter.
Nothing bumps grade. Conservation may improve its chances of upgrading.
It’s grade is a point in time as assigned by the TPG. It is what it is.
If I crack a coin and it upgrades then it is the new grade assigned by the TPG. It’s new MV becomes basis for pricing. I had a Pcgs rattler crackout go from 63 to 65, the other coin cracked and resubmitted got same grade as before - 63. I then adjusted inv Val to CDN bid on both and booked the favorability to reval.
If u play the Holder game and your coin downgrades congrats - it’s MV is now per new grade on Holder and a writedown to its new bid value. It’s called tuition.
I've mentally added and removed defects to a coin to see if a current grade makes sense before. When you end up saying to yourself that coin could have a few more marks, more wear, or crappier luster and still get the assigned grade, it's time to consider the next grade up. Works the same in reverse.
+1
I agree with this, and if I think the coin is undergraded (or overgraded), it doesn't matter to me what's on the holder. It's clear to me that tpg grading has been political and inconsistant for longer than I had realized. What still matters to me is whether I like the coin, or not.
I knew it would happen.
Here is 1915-S MS-65 that didn't get a bump because a the difference between a 65 & a 66+ is a huge amount of money
The toning isn't as intense but it has a rainbow of colors.
So far as condition goes, It's better than the above (1928) coin.
Anyway...I believe commons are more likely to get a bump up for eye appeal.
I couldn't even get a + on this one and the 28 got a grade and 1/2
I agree with PCGS that you basically grade for condition first and then bump up or down.
Rarity also influences the bump & that is something that I'm on the fence about.
My Saint Set
Is that coin a ms63 graded that is worth 65 Money? Super strike!
Sweet hand detail on your 44-S!!!
When the coin jumps on me .... as far as the eye appeal; then I would bump the grade
Truly, I do not mean to be offensive, but I do not understand this comment. You've been involved with numismatics for decades longer than I have. Was there ever a time that value and grade weren't intertwined? Even Sheldon's original premise in creating the 70-point scale was to arrive at a shorthand system for value.
I'm guessing your comment is more directed to the inherent issues between technical grading and so-called market grading. If that's your meaning, well yeah. Market grading adds another nebulous layer of subjectivity that can't be reconciled with any published standards...... but that ship apparently sailed long ago. The whole AU/BU distinction has never been blurrier.
What "bumps" a grade"? Is the coin taken back in time and the wear undone? Bumping grades means that the TPGs lose their integrity, nothing more.
It wouldn't be because a coin was conserved like your other thread. But when you have the power to claim market acceptable you have an edge until you lose your base.
Now you can chemically remove stuff and claim no damage by market magnification grading standards, Next if your a TPG you can tone coins for profit or avoid guarantee payouts because it looks NT, after all it hasn't damaged the surface.
Not sure how I fell but it's creepy. The owner is happy, the buyer fells ripped if they find out. I say it should be noted in that case but since most coins have been sudo conserved you could argue either way. Seems Respected pro's get a pass others are coin doctors.
Had the Omaga man not had an ego or some artist like Carr could produce coins with original dies and pass em off I suppose you'd have a counterfeit as good as the original and no one would ever know, so it's like speeding if you don't get caught it's okay right?
It's a slippery slope on one hand we rely on the market leaders for guidance but they could have an conflict of interest, wouldn't want to have that target on my back, they may turn into your typical Washington slug😏
Kind of like back in the day on many arguments like:
Dealer- friction rub
Customer- AU circulated
Seems some issues resolved, some created.... it never ends.
Sorry to combine two threads but I'm on a smartphone with no 🎹 😙
😇
PCGS assigns weight as follows...
60% surface preservation.
15% Luster
15% Strike
10% Eye Appeal
There is no "Bump" per say
My Saint Set