Lebron says his Finals win versus the Warriors makes him the GOAT
erikthredd
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When LeBron James reflects on the Cleveland Cavaliers' first NBA title in 2016, he says that accomplishment allowed him to think of himself as the best player in the game.
"That one right there made me the greatest player of all time," James said in Episode 7 of the eight-part ESPN+ series More Than An Athlete.
"That's what I felt," James told friends and business partners Maverick Carter, Randy Mims and Rich Paul during the episode that began streaming on ESPN+ Sunday night. "I was super, super ecstatic to win one for Cleveland because of the 52-year drought. ... The first wave of emotion was when everyone saw me crying, like, that was all for 52 years of everything in sports that's gone on in Cleveland. And then after I stopped, I was like -- that one right there made you the greatest player of all time.
"Everybody was just talking -- how [the Warriors] were the greatest team of all time, like it was the greatest team ever assembled," he said. "And for us to come back, you know, the way we came back in that fashion, I was like, 'You did, you did something special.' That's probably one of the only times in my career I felt like, oh, s---, like you did something special. I haven't had, really had time, to really, like, sit back and think, but that ... that was a moment."
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
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Usually when this clown opens his mouth he outdoes himself in the idiot department, not sure why anyone puts a mic in his face but whatever. In this case I got no problem with this though, an elite player in his sport should think he is the best ever I guess
LOL!!!!! He just wishes he was as great as MJ!
Pointing to this series as the de facto reason why he is goat would have meant more if it had been Lebron who hit the biggest shot in game 7 history and not Kyrie Irving.
If Kyrie misses that shot and the Cavs lose is Lebron still the goat because of this series?
Probably not.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
No,He is as great as MJ in his own way but pointing to this series as why he's the goat comes with a disclaimer for the reason i just mentioned above.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
they should think that but the way he toots his own horn is lame. Other guys with better social skills can kinda brag on themselves without making you sick , not him though. If there was a GOAT award for biggest sports douche he would be a finalist. Actually off the top of my head I can't think of anyone else nearly as bad.
Looks like LeChump decided to distract the masses from his Jew comment and the tampering. Well done.
In is own mind maybe. MJ carried the Bulls to 6 Championships. He didn't have near the players helping that Lebron had to get his 3. Not even close.
did MJ toot his own horn like this clown? He was likeable , he was even in movies. Can you picture LeBron in spacejam?
Lebron is actually going to be in Space Jam 2.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
You don't think playing with HOFers Pippen and Rodman didn't help? Kerr and Kukoc weren't too shabby, either.
James had virtually no one around him in Cleveland.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I didn't say MJ had nothing......but James had the big 3 in Miami where he got 2 rings and the one in Cleveland he had several real good players.
James's supporting cast in Cleveland was nowhere close to what Jordan had in Chicago. Let's not make things up.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Lebron's teammates that made the All Star team the same year he did:
Kevin Love
Kyrie Irving
Mo Williams
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Dwayne Wade
Chris Bosh
Lebron's teammates that had previously made the All Star team:
Ray Allen
Shaquille O'Neal
Jordan's teammates that made the All Star team the same year he did:
Scottie Pippen
Jordan's teammates that had previously made the All Star team:
Dennis Rodman
Lebron virtually having no one around in Cleveland is a myth. He also had Ray Allen & Kyle Korver who are just as good three point shooters as Steve Kerr if not better.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I'm not making up:
Irving
Love
JR Smith
Korver
Tristan Thompson
I'd take Pippen and Rodman over any two James played with in Cleveland any day.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I would too but saying Lebron had no one around while in Cleveland was false. Last year would have been the only case and he still had a second All Star in Kevin Love.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Fair enough. My point was more along the lines of responding to DM's claim that Jordan's supporting cast was much weaker than James's.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I would say Irving was as good as Pippen and Love was better than ANY center that Jordan had EVER. Heck Jordan never had a center that did squat.
Much weaker is a stretch. I do think the first three-peat Bulls teams weren't as good as the LBJ/Wade/Bosh/Allen Heat teams.
The MJ/Pippen/Kukoc/Rodman teams were definitely in the g.o.a.t. teams debate.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Irving on offense,Pippen on defense. Other way around and they're not even comparable imo.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Just winning a championship in Cleveland period is amazing enough. Doesn't matter what team it was against lol.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
I put LeBron over MJ. LeBron has had more seasons as an inner circle elite player (top 3 in the league) than anyone in league history. Bar none.
He also played in an era where there weren't many great players comparable to him. Since he came into the league it was mostly Kobe then Lebron. Jordan played in era where he had Magic,Bird & Kareem.
When you ask people who are their top 5 players of all time, their answer will usually have at least three if not all four of MJ,Magic,Bird & Kareem.
I go with MJ because you weren't beating Jordan in his prime. If your team got into the Finals to face his Bulls,you'd be lucky if it went to 6 games because you weren't going 7.
Lebron on the other hand lost to the Warriors three times,two different Spurs teams,and the Mavs. He was also the only player to get swept twice in the Finals in over two decades.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Considering the play on the court and ignoring the banter, I would select James before LeBron for second place on my all time greatest basketball list.
Wilt remains at the top.
James who? James Worthy? James Earl Jones? Rick James?
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
James Marshall Hendrix.
Lebrons championship came compliments of Kirie Irving... who should have been series MVP. Irving hit the big shot. Lebron is top 5... Jordan is GOAT.
Look man,you can listen to Jimi but you can't hear him.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Hendrix is the GOAT and it's not even remotely debatable.
He's not my favorite musician by any means, not even close, but I've never heard anyone play the guitar so ingeniously like him.
Speaking of NBA GOAT...the correct answer is Wilton Norman Chamberlain.
Now go ahead and carry on the debate for who is in second place.
Wilt was amazing and seemingly under appreciated when these topics come up. I do think his statistics were a largely a product of his times. I dont think there is any way he would average close to his season and career totals if he were playing modern basketball. look at his rebounding numbers.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
In other NBA news, there will never be a team as consistently dominant for such a long period of time as the Boston Celtics. Case Closed and you guys can debate what team/s are the second best.
Pointing to this series as the de facto reason why he is goat would have meant more if it had been Lebron who hit the biggest shot in game 7 history and not Kyrie Irving
bigger than that shot was his block at the other end. also, I'm pretty sure that shot by Irving was by design, it isn't a case of Lebron wanting the ball and Kyrie not giving it up, the Team planned it that way.
meanwhile, back to the thread topic --- I will only say that the Warriors were the defending Champion and had just finished a season that set a record for victories, with most of the NBA world hype claiming them to be the Best Team of all time. the Cavaliers, led by Lebron James, fought back from a 3-1 Finals deficit for the first time in NBA history and won the title on the defending Champion's court.
those are the facts, everyone else can debate about the GOAT
The Cavs had to win two games on the road to come back. An amazing feat considering who they were up against. BTW when LeBron was in Miami and Irving was the Cavs "go to" guy, how did they do? Also the Cavs made the finals four years in a row, last year they should not have made it but LeBron refused to lose. With James in LA the Cavs can't even sniff the playoffs.
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Ralph
People act like Lebron's block was in the final seconds of that game but it happened with a 1:50 to go while Golden State still had three more offensive possessions after the block. Had GS scored on any of the three possessions after that block it would have made it totally irrelevant.
Great block at the time and even greater moment when the final buzzer went off but the Lebron hero worship after the game made it all about Lebron when that game was won on a Kyrie three. That isn't an opinion,its a fact. Kyrie's three with :53 seconds left made it a 92-89 game. Curry misses two three attempts in the final minute and Lebron hits a free throw to end it at 93-89 Cleveland.
My opinion on that series is it was definitely the greatest Finals in NBA history just because of the 3-1 comeback not because of the 52 year drought which was just the cherry on top for Cleveland fans.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I hear that a lot out there, and can't disagree that Chamberlain's numbers wouldn't be as great if he played today. However his numbers in my opinion would have still been great enough in today's game to still be the GOAT.
I also hear out there how the players were so much shorter back then. I posted this before a few months back, a link that showed that the average height of an NBA player today is only around 1 1/2" taller than when Chamberlain played.
I think what many don't quite comprehend is how quick Chamberlain was. I've spoken to some old timers over the years who saw Chamberlain play. One old timer who saw him play a lot, said that he was the quickest basketball player he ever saw. Not the quickest runner, but quick in the sense of as he called it "cat like reflexes" in his words. Amazingly high praise for a guy who is over 7 feet tall.
Are LeBron James and Michael Jordan great? Of course they are. But Chamberlain was "freak of nature" great, the likes of which I doubt we will ever see again.
Do you mean when Kyrie was a 19/20/21 year old? He was like any other NBA player at that age outside of the GOAT argument. No different than Anthony Davis,The Greak Freak,Kevin Durant,Steph Curry,etc...pick whatever player you want not named Jordan,James,Bird,Magic,Duncan,Kareem,Wilt & Russell and you'll probably see that player at that age has some greats stats but not much else.
This thread isn't a Lebron vs Kyrie thread even though you Lebronnies want it to be. This thread was about Lebron pointing to the 2015-16 Finals as to why he should be GOAT. I brought Kyrie's name into it because had Kyrie misses that three we're probably not here right now having this conversation.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I certainly think Wilt would be a 30 ppg scorer today. I dont believe he would be averaging 50 though. I think it is pretty obvious that his rebounding stats would not be at a career 23 per game. that is interesting to hear about that old timers recollections. I never saw wilt play, but because of his huge rebounding stats, size, and lack of ability away from the basket/ free throws I figured he was a Shaq like player. One who dominated with a huge strong body. from what you say, was he more similar to Hakeem Olajuon? I always preferred the dream to ewing and shaq as he was so quick/smooth when he played. maybe my preconceived notions about wilt were incorrect.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The level of athleticism now compared to Wilt's time is not even comparable. There is no comparison between 6-7 forwards in the 60s to the 6-9 forwards in the modern game.
Do the stats include wing span as well as height? It seems like more NBA players these days have abnormally long wing spans compared to their height. Additionally, how were heights reported? There is no fudging of heights any more which I am not sure was the case in the 60s.
Using anecdotes about quickness and what not is fun to write but totally irrelevant. Chamberlain was an elite athlete and far superior to those in his day and age. He would be an elite athlete and great player today but no where near the dominant force he was during his time. Chamberlain played all but 8 minutes one season, that would be impossible in today's game. It simply shows that the level of competition and athleticism wasn't anywhere near up to snuff to the modern game.
Robb
had Draymond Green not been an idiot, the 3-1 comeback never happens. he was an essential cog at the time. (his game is on the decline now.) without him, the Warriors got blown out at home in G5 and the door was opened for LBJ & Co. to make history.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Its too bad the NBA didn't start counting blocked shots earlier than the mid70's,I would have loved to have seen Russell & Wilt's totals compared to the best shot blockers of the past 20-30 years.
Olajuwon has the most career blocks with 3280 and Mark Eaton had the best career blocks per game at 3.50.
Russell & Wilt played against less athletic players and talent level back then was not as good as today,adding onto fergie's comment above. We'll never know but I wouldn't be surprised if the blocks totals for those two dwarfed the best of recent eras.
I'm sure part of this was embellishment but Celtics TV announcer & former Russell teammate,Tom Heinsohn has said that at times Russell would block 3-4 shots on one opposing possession alone. Others times he's mentioned that Russell would have averaged over 10 blocks per game had the NBA kept track. If this were true you gotta figure Wilt was up there as well.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
the game is different now. The numbers will be much lower in certain areas and higher in others. There were no computer geeks back then running percentages on 2000 different scenarios which then influences things like number of threes attempted .
Whatever the basketball version of sabre metrics is they didn't do that garbage back then,.
They had plenty of cutting edge technology at the time.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I would put the Bulls right up there winning 6 Championships in an 8 year period. And the only reason it wasn't 8 for 8 is that Jordan decided he wanted to play Baseball ...... that lasted 2 years.
fixed
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Agreed. This is a carbon copy of my Barry Sanders was better than Jim Brown argument
I've never even heard rumors of that, but if serious, do share.
I thought golf was the only sport that allowed secret suspensions.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/131997-mjs-1st-retirement-was-it-a-secret-suspension
Michael Jordan's First Retirement: Was It a Secret Suspension?
Didn't last two years. Lasted a little over 1-1/2. Jordan came back and played. And lost.
LeBron consistently gets hammered for losing in the Finals 5 times when Michael lost 0. OK, fair enough. If you're going to do that, though, you have to bash Michael for not even getting to the Finals in a lot of his seasons.
It's not just height, of course. It's weight, it's athleticism, it's skill, and so on. Watching a clip of 1960s NBA, it's easy to see a massive difference in the athletes and the skill on display. The most obvious, of course, is offensive skill. Teams don't fling up 120 shots per game at 38% FG% anymore.