So, archive records show a pair of 1884 Trade dollar proof dies were made
Coins struck, all believed melted but a few
No records of 1885 Trade dollar proof dies being struck
John Haseltine started dealing coins through auctions and such around 1870, he is believe to have connections inside the
mint, including Director Linderman and also and primarily A. Louden Snowden, the Chief Coiner from 1866 or 67 through
78 or such, then later became Philadelphia Mint Superintendent until 1885, when at the same time Haseltine stopped
dealing. Haseltine claimed in 1907 or such that here was a fire in 67 or 68 (doing all from memory) and saw the 1804 dollar
dies by the coining presses. Haseltine handled most of the 1804 Type III dollars, and came up with some great stories
on where he found them, one of the Type IIIs was authenticated as original by DuBois in 77. Haseltine was the son-in-law of Idler, it was Idler's estate collection that Haseltine claimed all of the 84 and 85 Trate dollar proofs came from when he sold
most of them
I might have some of the dates wrong, researched all of this for a book I was writing someday on the Trades.....
If you go on the Newman portal and do a search for Haseltine for auction catalogues, you will see him prominently
in the 1870s and early 1880s.
Thanks Kevin! That was much more informative than all the previous comments put together. (The explosion and fire was in 1867. Haseltine was not there and could not have seen anything. One man was killed.)
@RogerB said:
Thanks Kevin! That was much more informative than all the previous comments put together. (The explosion and fire was in 1867. Haseltine was not there and could not have seen anything. One man was killed.)
Roger,
Haseltine mentions the fire in an article that he wrote, I believe it was published around 1913, will have to check on the dates, I believe he just mentioned the fire when remembering the year.
To the best of my knowledge, none of the photos above were made under properly controlled conditions designed to produce objective color. Therefore they are all correct and all incorrect.
@RogerB said:
To the best of my knowledge, none of the photos above were made under properly controlled conditions designed to produce objective color. Therefore they are all correct and all incorrect.
@Paradisefound said:
I am a bit puzzled with the variance in colors..... Which one is the truest representative?
It depends on the light angle (and also can be manipulated via white balance / saturation).
In other words, the colors are visible from some light angles, but not from others.
I've seen this same phenomenon on proof half dimes.
1871 V-1 NGC PR-67+ star cam, Heritage photos 2012-1 and 2012-8
@Paradisefound said:
I am a bit puzzled with the variance in colors..... Which one is the truest representative?
It all depends on the light angle.
In other words, the colors are visible from some light angles, but not from others.
I've seen this same phenomenon on proof half dimes.
Lighting angles do not affect color. The comparison photos yosclimber posted show differences in angle of reflectance from field to camera. The frosted relief scatters light at many angles and thus seems about the same in both photos. But the field is nearly flat - like a mirror - and reflects light only at very narrow angles. Hence, the field is either dark or light, but relief remains the same.
"Color" refers to the wavelengths of light reflected from a coin. To get an idea of a coin's objective color, one must use flat spectrum lights of about 5500-K color temperature, a properly color balanced (white balance) camera, and no stray ambient light such as fluorescent ceiling lights or colored walls.
Three active bidders to these. Interesting that the winners of the two coins actually shook hands at Legend’s rarity event a few months ago. Congrats to them!
@specialist said:
I picked the wrong pony. A Legend customer won the 1884 and he would have won the 85 had I been on the phone w/him. My guy only went to $3.2.
Comments
So, archive records show a pair of 1884 Trade dollar proof dies were made
Coins struck, all believed melted but a few
No records of 1885 Trade dollar proof dies being struck
John Haseltine started dealing coins through auctions and such around 1870, he is believe to have connections inside the
mint, including Director Linderman and also and primarily A. Louden Snowden, the Chief Coiner from 1866 or 67 through
78 or such, then later became Philadelphia Mint Superintendent until 1885, when at the same time Haseltine stopped
dealing. Haseltine claimed in 1907 or such that here was a fire in 67 or 68 (doing all from memory) and saw the 1804 dollar
dies by the coining presses. Haseltine handled most of the 1804 Type III dollars, and came up with some great stories
on where he found them, one of the Type IIIs was authenticated as original by DuBois in 77. Haseltine was the son-in-law of Idler, it was Idler's estate collection that Haseltine claimed all of the 84 and 85 Trate dollar proofs came from when he sold
most of them
I might have some of the dates wrong, researched all of this for a book I was writing someday on the Trades.....
If you go on the Newman portal and do a search for Haseltine for auction catalogues, you will see him prominently
in the 1870s and early 1880s.
Kevin
The change has been made to the pedigree. It should appear online by the end of the day. Sorry for the confusion.
Dealing in Canadian and American coins and historical medals.
Thanks Kevin! That was much more informative than all the previous comments put together. (The explosion and fire was in 1867. Haseltine was not there and could not have seen anything. One man was killed.)
Are we guessing on a price? Under $3 million $2.5 million or so with the juice.
Roger,
Haseltine mentions the fire in an article that he wrote, I believe it was published around 1913, will have to check on the dates, I believe he just mentioned the fire when remembering the year.
Kevin
I am a bit puzzled with the variance in colors..... Which one is the truest representative?
To the best of my knowledge, none of the photos above were made under properly controlled conditions designed to produce objective color. Therefore they are all correct and all incorrect.
I have the Eliasberg Catalog let me see.
It depends on the light angle (and also can be manipulated via white balance / saturation).
In other words, the colors are visible from some light angles, but not from others.
I've seen this same phenomenon on proof half dimes.
1871 V-1 NGC PR-67+ star cam, Heritage photos 2012-1 and 2012-8
Lighting angles do not affect color. The comparison photos yosclimber posted show differences in angle of reflectance from field to camera. The frosted relief scatters light at many angles and thus seems about the same in both photos. But the field is nearly flat - like a mirror - and reflects light only at very narrow angles. Hence, the field is either dark or light, but relief remains the same.
"Color" refers to the wavelengths of light reflected from a coin. To get an idea of a coin's objective color, one must use flat spectrum lights of about 5500-K color temperature, a properly color balanced (white balance) camera, and no stray ambient light such as fluorescent ceiling lights or colored walls.
Internet pre-live bids including 20% buyer's fee:
1884: $810,000
1885: $3,360,000
Final auction prices including 20% buyer's fee:
1884: $1,140,000
1885: $3,960,000
Three active bidders to these. Interesting that the winners of the two coins actually shook hands at Legend’s rarity event a few months ago. Congrats to them!
Last picture I remember is is Bruce and Del together.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Not me - I was dumpster diving tonight and bought the two 1827 quarters
1884: $1.14M
1885: $3.96M
Auctioneer really worked the room for 50k cut bid on the 1885 to get it over $4m. Still over $5m for the pair.
Congrats. You now can be known as QDN!
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I picked the wrong pony. A Legend customer won the 1884 and he would have won the 85 had I been on the phone w/him. My guy only went to $3.2.
I am disgusted the 2 coins are now separated.
Did you see the 1878 MS 68 bringing 250k ??
Lol. No. That coin was a dog a decade ago...ten years of gradeflation seems to have raised its stature
The 1878 MS68 is the only MS68 you can buy. I never liked it and I never want ed it in bruces set
an MS68 should be $200G-just not that coin
You shouldn’t pick a pony in a horse race.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
anybody knows who bought the 1882 PR 68 CAM PCGS for a lot of money ? 144k
I was the underbidder.
this might change over time...