Altering cards
craig44
Posts: 11,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am a member of a facebook group and recently a member put up an advertisement that he can clean chrome type cards, remove scratches on chrome/refractor cards and remove/reduce the roller lines that are sometimes evident on the backs of some 90's inserts. He also stated that he "does not fix corners (yet)." he did after a discussion say that he was joking about the corners. he only said so after the discussion though so i wonder how genuine his statement to that effect is.
my question to the forum is, do you consider such things as altering the cards? the goal is to get them into higher graded slabs.
here is where i stand. I am ok with cleaning off fingerprints or dirt/grime off from a card. However, when scratches are either filled or buffed out, I consider that an alteration. I also consider repairing roller marks an alteration. I dont know if I am in the vast minority, but most felt this is acceptable. What do you think?
I dont really want to out the group member or even the group as I do not want to throw anyone under the bus here.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Comments
Hiya David
Tough question.
IMO, "adding" anything to a card would be alteration.
Polishing the surface to remove a scratch? On the border for me. Right now? I think I'm OK with that.
His service is not just offering the removal of smudges, but either buffing out or filling actual scratches in the surface. He will not disclose his methods, but it is a service to remove scratches. I dont think anyone would have a problem with wiping away grime or fingerprints.
as far as let the graders set the standards, we probably dont want to know how many vintage cards are already in tpg holders with built up corners, filled pin holes, repaired creases etc. It would be great if we could rid the hobby of card doctors before cards are even sent to TPGers. I think PSA does a great job, but we are all human and can on occasion make mistakes.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I concur with this, cleaning off fingerprints is no different than wax removal, IMO. The others are sketchy.
HI Mike! he is also offering to remove roller marks from the reverse of 1996 select mirrors.
I dont know. I love this hobby and this kind of stuff scares me.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
One of the recent threads where there was a discussion about the substances used to remove scratches from the PSA cases, one of the comments that was so flippant that I guess most missed it, was that one of the members also used it on their refractors. They did not go into detail, but I assumed that they were referring to scratch removal from the actual card. It struck me as an odd comment, and I waited for the replies, but no one seemed to notice it, and no mention was made. I personally collect very little of the shiny stuff.
I wonder how future collectors will view this? Will original patina be important? Some parallels can be made to the coin hobby. Is dipping coins ethical? nothing is being added. Is whizzing coins ethical? I know those actions are frowned upon in that hobby. how will future collectors view buffing out scratches of sportscards? not sure. Just because certain alterations cannot be detected now, doesnt mean they wont be able to at some point in the future. I know there is a huge debate about to peel or not to peel for 1990's inserts. Many feel peeling changes the originality of the card. I will take my cards original, scratches and all.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Dipping coins ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
Removing fingerprints, wax, etc.... is just removing an extra substance that was placed on the card at a later date. Removing a scratch means altering the surface of the card by removing more of the glossy surface so the scratch disappears.
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I'm cool with removing wax. When you start getting into soaking cards or trimming, I'd be scared to death to even try it.
Yes. There is a process that removes the top micro layer which takes all the toning with it. Not as universal as it once was.
Blurry line like with most such collectible "improvements" -- when a fingerprint or wax residue can be carefully wiped away, do so. Not so keen on the idea of repairing scratches in the surface though. I collect no "shiny stuff" per se, but on that I'd be against it. It may be possible that the "fix" is impossible to detect at the time of grading, but could show up later as the "fix" turns inside the slab -- as all the TPG's have experienced in the past with coins and a light glaze of translucent (for awhile) putty on their surfaces.
Understand David.
Have never had a real fixed POV on this subject.
For sure tho - "adding" anything would be a no no unless divulged so it's considered authentic/not gradable.
I use alcohol based eyeglass cleaner and a microfiber cloth to clean chrome type cards. on my recent PSA group sub, I went 14/16 for PSA 10's (one was a non chrome tough chipped border PSA 8.5 and the other was a chrome auto PSA 9).
older style Bowmans Best Atomics, ike 1997 and 1998, accumulate a grime and film on the surface. this is well known, and effect the grade sometimes. here is an example of one I cracked and cleaned, however the grade remained a PSA 9. I cleaned it purely for my collection as the grime is visible in the holder. I wasn't trying to "pull a fast one" nor was I trying to use PlastX to remove actual scratches.
Now ive experimented with polishing surfaces with PlastX, and it can remove surface scratches to an extent. but theres a fine line between removing the surface scratches and removing the clear topcoat gloss and ruining the card. its not really worth it to me so I choose not to do it. a simple cleaning with eyeglass cleaner is all I do to remove the fingerprints and grime from the card to bring it back to the factory smooth and clean surface. its not altering or doctoring. no more than waxing and buffing your car before a car show. here are some of my recent cards that were cleaned well before subbing. IMO, ALL of these 1990's chrome cards need to be wiped clean since they all have some kind of grime on them.
myslabs.to/smzcards
Yep, I'm fine with grime removal on all the above shiny stuff, though it's not what I collect.
I think grime removal/fingerprint removal is ok, but anything that is abrasive that will remove scratches like the product mentioned above I am not ok with as it is altering the original gloss of the card in addition to just cleaning it
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.