Am I the only one that doesn't think that coin is a true error and was intentionally manufactured by a mint employee for personal profit?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Am I the only one that doesn't think that coin is a true error and was intentionally manufactured by a mint employee for personal profit?
No, but the personal profit is often a long time ago and the Mint has dramatically cut down on this. I think people generally recognize that but it doesn’t take away from how cool a coin is.
It’s like people enjoying the 1913 Liberty Nickels and the Class III 1804 dollars. Some people like them, some people don’t, but people generally agree on what they were.
@PerryHall said:
Am I the only one that doesn't think that coin is a true error and was intentionally manufactured by a mint employee for personal profit?
No, but the personal profit is often a long time ago and the Mint has dramatically cut down on this. I think people generally recognize that but it doesn’t take away from how cool a coin is.
If that coin was intentionally made that way, let's stop calling it a mint error coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Am I the only one that doesn't think that coin is a true error and was intentionally manufactured by a mint employee for personal profit?
No, but the personal profit is often a long time ago and the Mint has dramatically cut down on this. I think people generally recognize that but it doesn’t take away from how cool a coin is.
If that coin was intentionally made that way, let's stop calling it a mint error coin.
Who’s calling it an error? I’m not sure which coin you’re talking about but I didn’t see error used for the last coins posted by @LindyS, @jt88, or @Byers.
Generally the TPGs do so you might get further on the Q and A forum and asking Stephanie for that. You can also ask @FredWeinberg but he’s retiring.
The same thing happens for patterns and restrikes. The largest category of patterns are actually privately ordered fantasy coins, not anything to do with Mint experiments and many restrikes are done with completely new dies. And also pedigree vs. provenance. People who want change should focus their attention on the ones doing the naming, like the TPGs.
I did ask about changing the way patterns and restrikes are named, the latter years ago, with no effect, so I wish you luck in your quest. Maybe you’ll have better luck than I or say @tradedollarnut with pedigree.
You are correct and this has been discussed on several threads already:
• U.S. intentionally created ‘patterns’ (fantasy restrikes and mules) sell for strong prices.
• PCGS and NGC do not normally differentiate between an accidental mint error or an intentional mint error.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Having collected up errors & error literature since 1979 my view of seemingly assisted errors, collector desired pattern production, 1913 V 5c all owned by one ex mint employee, & 1804 $ none of which were made in 1804 has evolved.
Over the decades I have noticed dealers quickly find homes for all of the above.
As time for me passed I added just a few possible assisted products to round out & expand my USA Mint, private Mint, foreign Mint made coin collection when opportunity & collection compatibility & funds all lined up. Possibly assisted USA Mint made or as I refer to them: shenanigans, mint sport, assisted available from many countries all enlighten me to what coin presses are actually capable of producing: with or without an assist.
Every coin I add, for me, in my coin hobby is a page in a book that helps me understand the minting process.
Here's a favorite of mine, one of 3 or 4 in a 6 year scallop brass production run, housed in a scratched up slab. Is it assisted, or possibly a prize found in the riddled out coinage stream ??? How would you know for sure if you were not employed on Philly Mint production floor in 1977 ???
My off centered over struck 25c. Made on purpose ? Riddled out of coinage stream ? Rolled up & found error goodie ? Liberated from a $1,000 canvas bag ? How do you know ???
@LindyS said:
My off centered over struck 25c. Made on purpose ? Riddled out of coinage stream ? Rolled up & found error goodie ? Liberated from a $1,000 canvas bag ? How do you know ???
(1976) Double Struck 25c
Very nice!
I hope PCGS will slab my 1975 Bicentennial Quarter one day
@LindyS said:
Here's a favorite of mine, one of 3 or 4 in a 6 year scallop brass production run, housed in a scratched up slab. Is it assisted, or possibly a prize found in the riddled out coinage stream ??? How would you know for sure if you were not employed on Philly Mint production floor in 1977 ???
[...]
Very nice! Is this on a foreign planchet? If so which one?
@LindyS said:
Here's a favorite of mine, one of 3 or 4 in a 6 year scallop brass production run, housed in a scratched up slab. Is it assisted, or possibly a prize found in the riddled out coinage stream ??? How would you know for sure if you were not employed on Philly Mint production floor in 1977 ???
[...]
Very nice! Is this on a foreign planchet? If so which one?
My final Ron Landis counterstamped coin before my wallet threatened a mutiny. There were others I would have loved to have added, but this one will have to suffice.
It's also highlighted on Verne Walrafen's GMMNut website.
J.L. Bode Birdstuffer Civil War Token struck over 1861 Seated Liberty Quarter, PCGS MS64 ex. T. Harrison Garrett
Great detail of the eagle undertype! Just amazing to study in hand
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I know this is technically dark side material, but it does fit the category of an overstruck coin. All 1804 Bank of England Dollars/5 Shillings were overstruck on Spanish 8 Reales. They were struck from 1804 to 1811, all bearing the date of 1804. They were an emergency issue resulting from the shortage of silver due to the Napoleonic Wars. They followed the earlier issued countermarked 8 Reales that were often referred to as the head of a fool stamped on the neck of an a$$.
Yay, a thread I can actually contribute something meaningful to! These are a couple favorites!!!
I've had great transactions with people like: drwstr123, CCC2010, AlanLastufka, Type2, Justlooking, zas107, StrikeOutXXX, 10point, 66Tbird, and many more!
Great question! For the nickel, Im not able to see the date, though ANACS identified it as an 1883. Unfortunately, I can’t identify the host for the Peace Dollar.
I've had great transactions with people like: drwstr123, CCC2010, AlanLastufka, Type2, Justlooking, zas107, StrikeOutXXX, 10point, 66Tbird, and many more!
Comments
Gorgeous Mike!
What an impressive coin in both the half dollar size and what looks to be dramatic dishing! It would be great to hold and experience this in hand!
Am I the only one that doesn't think that coin is a true error and was intentionally manufactured by a mint employee for personal profit?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
No, but the personal profit is often a long time ago and the Mint has dramatically cut down on this. I think people generally recognize that but it doesn’t take away from how cool a coin is.
It’s like people enjoying the 1913 Liberty Nickels and the Class III 1804 dollars. Some people like them, some people don’t, but people generally agree on what they were.
If that coin was intentionally made that way, let's stop calling it a mint error coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Who’s calling it an error? I’m not sure which coin you’re talking about but I didn’t see error used for the last coins posted by @LindyS, @jt88, or @Byers.
Generally the TPGs do so you might get further on the Q and A forum and asking Stephanie for that. You can also ask @FredWeinberg but he’s retiring.
The same thing happens for patterns and restrikes. The largest category of patterns are actually privately ordered fantasy coins, not anything to do with Mint experiments and many restrikes are done with completely new dies. And also pedigree vs. provenance. People who want change should focus their attention on the ones doing the naming, like the TPGs.
I did ask about changing the way patterns and restrikes are named, the latter years ago, with no effect, so I wish you luck in your quest. Maybe you’ll have better luck than I or say @tradedollarnut with pedigree.
@Zoins
You are correct and this has been discussed on several threads already:
• U.S. intentionally created ‘patterns’ (fantasy restrikes and mules) sell for strong prices.
• PCGS and NGC do not normally differentiate between an accidental mint error or an intentional mint error.
Sounds like the U.S. Mint, Daniel Carr, Ron Landis, and Mike Bozynski have more in common than we thought . . . . . . .
Z
Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
Having collected up errors & error literature since 1979 my view of seemingly assisted errors, collector desired pattern production, 1913 V 5c all owned by one ex mint employee, & 1804 $ none of which were made in 1804 has evolved.
Over the decades I have noticed dealers quickly find homes for all of the above.
As time for me passed I added just a few possible assisted products to round out & expand my USA Mint, private Mint, foreign Mint made coin collection when opportunity & collection compatibility & funds all lined up. Possibly assisted USA Mint made or as I refer to them: shenanigans, mint sport, assisted available from many countries all enlighten me to what coin presses are actually capable of producing: with or without an assist.
Every coin I add, for me, in my coin hobby is a page in a book that helps me understand the minting process.
Here's a favorite of mine, one of 3 or 4 in a 6 year scallop brass production run, housed in a scratched up slab. Is it assisted, or possibly a prize found in the riddled out coinage stream ??? How would you know for sure if you were not employed on Philly Mint production floor in 1977 ???
My off centered over struck 25c. Made on purpose ? Riddled out of coinage stream ? Rolled up & found error goodie ? Liberated from a $1,000 canvas bag ? How do you know ???
(1976) Double Struck 25c
Very nice!
I hope PCGS will slab my 1975 Bicentennial Quarter one day
Very nice! Is this on a foreign planchet? If so which one?
Its struck on a Philippines Scallop 5s brass blank.
The Post Office keeps putting these things into my mailbox.
Z
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
A doubly damaged Ike . . . .
Z
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
@lordmarcovan ,
This thread may be of interest. A lot of great information for your research.
Z
Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
The snow is flying, must be time to get the leather strap and my hammer and make some more fun stuff 😉
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I need to move to your neighborhood!
Awesome coin!
My final Ron Landis counterstamped coin before my wallet threatened a mutiny. There were others I would have loved to have added, but this one will have to suffice.
It's also highlighted on Verne Walrafen's GMMNut website.
http://web.archive.org/web/20160413045548/http://gmmnut.com/gmm/gmm29.html
This one was commissioned from Ron by Bill Fivaz for The Wealth of the South 110th ANA Anniversary held in 2001 in my current home town, Atlanta, GA.
Needless to say, I was pretty excited about acquiring this one.
Z
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
Have you sent it in and not received a grade
Lafayette Grading Set
I haven't sent it in yet, but I'm working on it
In commemoration of Token Thursday . . . . . .
I owe the acquisition of this one to my forum "guardian angel" and little sis . . . . . .
My 1921 Morgan $1 with the 100th Anniversary of The Western Reserve Numismatic Club counter strike by Ron Landis of Landis Studios.
I'm so excited about this one I'll probably cross post it across a few threads.
Z
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
I haven’t sent it in yet. I have a project I need to do first, which is taking some time.
I picked up a few overstrikes by the Long Island Coin Club. These were struck over a 1964, 1982, and 1984 Kennedy Half.
Anyone have any history on the Long Island Coin Club and who might have engraved these overstrike dies?
Z
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
Tom
Older slab has a real Daniel Carr autograph...
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
I think it's time to resurrect this thread.
A recent acquisition or two.
Z
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
J.L. Bode Birdstuffer Civil War Token struck over 1861 Seated Liberty Quarter, PCGS MS64 ex. T. Harrison Garrett
Great detail of the eagle undertype! Just amazing to study in hand
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
This one is difficult to image,but it's an overstrike of a 1923 Peace Dollar.
You can barely see the wing of the eagle under the chest of the horse. Easier to tilt and see other details in the hand.
Z
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
@DrDarryl ,
I would be interested in the mintage figures on this one if you have them.
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
--Severian the Lame
Nice !
Love those Carr Overstrikes !
Collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Overstrike of a Jefferson nickel. Zoom in and you can see that Monticello is visible under the obverse.
Z
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
Multi struck pair
1873 Cent struck into struck 1793 Silver Cent
Chain Cent overstruck by Wreath Cent
I know this is technically dark side material, but it does fit the category of an overstruck coin. All 1804 Bank of England Dollars/5 Shillings were overstruck on Spanish 8 Reales. They were struck from 1804 to 1811, all bearing the date of 1804. They were an emergency issue resulting from the shortage of silver due to the Napoleonic Wars. They followed the earlier issued countermarked 8 Reales that were often referred to as the head of a fool stamped on the neck of an a$$.
Philippians 4:4-7
1884 host coin overstruck OFF-CENTER by X-cancelled USMint 1884-CC vintage dies.
I think the host coin is more visible when photographed with an LED ring light.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
My latest; "1796 S-85" large cent struck over a later date petite head large cent. In a TPG holder as "genuine"...
DC 2009-S VDB Lincoln o/s on a 1945 Lincoln.
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Yay, a thread I can actually contribute something meaningful to! These are a couple favorites!!!
Very nice coins! You certainly don't see those often!
It would be great if it was possible to identify what they were struck over! Are any of the host coin's dates visible?
Great question! For the nickel, Im not able to see the date, though ANACS identified it as an 1883. Unfortunately, I can’t identify the host for the Peace Dollar.