Ranked Collections and Top Pops - Is the Competition Worthwhile
7Jaguars
Posts: 7,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
What are Darksiders thoughts on having a collection ranked with PCGS or NGC? I suppose ego, but is there really an advantage to it? It seems very costly to slab a series with 60-80 coins in it & then what return.
I ask because I suppose I could unseat quite a few of the British sets, but why. Most of the keys are already slabbed by one service or the other. But why?
I got to thinking this after seeing "Poldan's" 6d set on NGC.....
Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
Well, just Love coins, period.
Well, just Love coins, period.
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Type collecting is fun, keeps you focused on the series you are trying to finish.
No.
Even if you have the top-ranked set, there is always somebody, someplace who is better.
Problem is we all collect something different and occasionally esoteric.
In my case, for example, the services don’t even have sets for “Mexican patterns” and if they did, no one would agree to the composition (not to mention that it would be constantly changing as new things are uncovered).
And even if there were such a defined set, how fun would it be to be “competing” with no one else!
I’d rather do it just for the fun of it.
Some sets are not well represented so if someone can display a complete or nearly complete set it can serve as an accessible online reference for others. I include photos and notes about which auctions a coin came from or any other pedigree info that I have. I would have found that information helpful when I first started out so hopefully other will find it useful, too. And it doesn't hurt to win a major award -- I got a generous grading credit ATS last year.
As far as the cost of getting coins slabbed, the typical argument is that they will be easier to sell and they are protected from damage. In my case, some of my raw coins had bag marks, circulation dings or had been lightly cleaned so the ones that straight graded are those where I have an approximate idea about their value. Also, some varieties are subtle so it helps to have them recognized on the label.
No. Don't let yourself fall into that trap.
I do slab some of the things I collect, mostly for the benefit of my heirs.
With respect to the sets that I collect, none of my top competitors participate in the registry. I suppose I could get sucked into it if they did participate, but they don't. Probably best that way, too.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I actually use the sets as an organisational tool. That is it. I like them because then I can see the coins from other collectors and the ones I am missing, but competing per se, not really. I do slab my coins because i think it helps to preserve them for the future. But as I am not married to either service, competing is not possible because i will never have a set by a single service as I buy the coins i like irrespective of holder.
I think you should get a registry going if you have the coins 🙂
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
What is your reason for collecting? The joy, the need to show off, or to try to make others jealous?
The main benefit for "slabbing" is for authenticity
and protection. With regards to registry sets, they
are great for those who need an EGO boost or some
bragging rights. But with "Darkside " collections, there
are dozens of multi-generational collections. If some
of these were ever graded, as if the Europeans even
cared about TPG's, then many of the current Registry
sets would be squashed. I know of two family collections
in Germany and one in Switzerland that are over 250+
years old and they are still adding to and upgrading
their holdings.
I for one would love to see the sets by @MrEureka , @pruebas And many others.
Isaac Rudman's sets at NGC are quite impressive as a measure of dedicated high-end collecting. You may have seen some of these come to auction in the last few years. His Mexico sets have been all but removed -- the Heritage auction catalogs were the best illustration of his collections, anyway.
Agree @jgenn I kept those catalogues as reference. Nice coins.
To each his or her own. I have no issue with those who are put off by the registry, but I happen to like it. In addition to the friendly competition, it has introduced me to others who collect what I do. That in turn has yielded both friendships and mutually beneficial coin deals.
I do agree with the comment that old collections exist, not in TPG holders, that would humble some of those that are leading in the registry.
http://www.victoriancent.com
Competition is good! (Most of the time that is). Organization and ease of viewing is nice. There will always be higher quality or more complete sets that are hidden away, but for those that are known - the registry works nicely. Having the coins graded also helps with resale when at time comes. The registry allows others to view your hard work and dedication. Compare your collection to others - discuss the rarities and/or varieties. It's all good fun.
The only downside side is the cost. It's expensive and public is you want it to be.
I guess sometimes you get tired of the "smack talking" by people (ie I've got the best/finest set, etc.) when you know you could crush it if you put your PCGS and ATS , etc. together....
Just ignore them is the obvious.
Well, just Love coins, period.
There are a few that can talk smack. The vast majority shouldn't.
First thoughts seem to reflect that this is about competition. And for those that like competition I suppose that is okay. There is likely a smaller minority that sees the registry as a means of sharing coins, what is possible and not possible. There is a different way of looking at this which is offering a point of reference as to surviving population and quality for the grade. And these two points really could be the education that the Registry offers over competition and the need to have the highest graded coin.
Frankly I am tired of rankings, the Academy Awards and other measurements that seem to measure what does not need to be quantified. It does have a way of overshadowing what is important... sharing, educating and trying to develop a handle on quality at various grades and a surviving population for such coins.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I enjoyed Registry collecting for a time. It's what brought me to this site in 2001, long before there were Darkside Registry options. I've since moved on, particularly as the Registry has grown so much that I could never hope to have a competitive set in anything on my modest budget, unless it were sufficiently esoteric to have no competition. Maybe Kazakhstan token issues or Burkina-Faso...
There are lots of series, even for major countries/regions ( Scandinavia come to mind) that have no sets started at all. So you may find something that you want to peruse.
I got to thinking this after seeing "Poldan's" 6d set on NGC.....
I struggle with the premise of this thread and the OP. I've corresponded with Poldan over the years. Although I can't speak directly for him, he comes across as an unassuming and modest individual when it comes to his collecting, and shows respect for others' endeavors - the antithesis of "ego." In short, he seems to me to be a good guy doing the NGC registry for fun.
No, I just brought it up because really if I wanted to, I could outrank this set and was just considering if I should go to the trouble.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Never made inferences about the person himself, who I do not know.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Until someone joins the registry those that showcase their collections on the NGC or PCGS registry are officially ranked.
I was born in Missouri. Show Me.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
You may want to check out PCGS certified MS63 1878 Dritanniar, or NGC certified 1854 6d [undergraded] at MS63, or the PCGS MS63 1848/7, or the PCGS66 1862, or the PCGS64 1893 Jubilee that I have shown here. The beat goes on.....I think I could just leave it at that.
There ya go.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Unfortunately, this seems to be moving in a direction that really serves no beneficial purposes. One can choose to compete or share to illustrate what is possible or choose neither and that is okay.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
You do realize that you would have to cross your PCGS coins in order to compete in the NGC registry with Poldan?
No doubt, which was why I posed the question; don't want to sound arrogant but those are all well deserved grades and arguably the keys to the Victorian 6d series that pretty much run away with the denomination as far as quality. I guess really I could say the same with the other lower denominations like shilling or 3d or 4d or florin or half crown. Would be a small fortune to grade these out in slabs or crossover unless N or P could come up with some kind of special; I had thought about just leaving them alone save for possibly resubmitting the 1854 as the rest are reasonable for grade.
Well, just Love coins, period.
I don't know how your series compare between TPGs but my perception is that 8 reales are graded a bit stricter at NGC (opinions go back and forth depending on the series) . Although I recently took a downgrade from XF-40 to VF-35 going from PCGS to NGC, I was more interested in my completion ratio than the grade (but I did get the proper attribution, which was missing on the PCGS slab).
How many would you have to cross over and/or have graded? If you want concistancy or to compete - then the cost isn't that great.
About 50, more if counting proofs & patterns, etc.
Interesting anecdote is that I have only about 25 slabbed between both services including shillings with the 6ds, but a few PCGS got the variety wrong and grade crazy, but the other way (eg 1859/8 shilling not designated as such but then sent to NGC where correct overdate read and graded 58 - that is not one of my better pieces).
Well, just Love coins, period.
If you have 100 to grade, they (NGC) may charge you the bulk grading rate which is half of the normal rate. PCGS will not unless they are the same coin and date.
The registry can certainly by competitive for some people but it doesn't have to be. I started out doing a couple sets mostly to share a few things (a Japan Type set via a custom set), and then my Albanian coins just because I'm nuts and want to suck other people into my mania.
Is it ego? Maybe. It's fun to think about having a nice set to share. Keeping it quiet can be more 'modest', but that doesn't really benefit anyone else but yourself...and that can be a bit of ego too.
If you want to share your set without the competition aspect you can always do a custom set. Not sure about PCGS
(I REALLY need to look into it), but you can do one at NGC with PCGS coins, and even raw coins by using a trick--call the coin a 'want' coin, then you can add photos and descriptors even if raw.
Best part is you define all the slots and can make it whatever you want. Whether it is 'showing off' vs. 'sharing' is an individual thing, but either way, other collectors can benefit.
Or, do a website. Depending on your skill set that could be a big pain.
Collectivecoin is also a great option to make a set to display.
In any case, you can make it competitive if you want, or not. I do confess to having a bit of an ego boost if I'm 'winning' on one of my key sets, even if I know deep down to my bones there are waaayyy better sets out there. Just not listed
Hmm, those are good suggestions as well. I agree with the fact that we seem to make these collections over the years and many times, really fabulous coins are buried away in a vault and not seen.
BTW, my 1926ME penny that had original Yellow Golden color has unfortunately toned in slab and the original pictures gone (boo hoo). Maybe I'll try something like that.
How much do they weigh the key coins in competition, or do they?
Well, just Love coins, period.
The weight given to the coins in a registry set is supposed to be based upon rarity - either real or from the census. Most of the time that rings true, but they sometimes are off a little in my opinion. They review and update or downgrade the weighting as more becomes know (I.e. A rare Morgan dollar which turns out to be common because of the bags of them stored in a vault and forgotten about, or a new hoard being discovered). Point value adjustments happen every once in a while as they try to be as close as possible.
The higher graded your coin is the more points. The rarer that it is the more points. A high grade rare coin - much more points.
Great! Now someone is going to drive up the cost of Burkina-Faso coins.
Grading companies think it's very worthwhile.
The pardon is for tyrants. They like to declare pardons on holidays, such as the birthday of the dictator, or Christ, or the Revolution. Dictators should be encouraged to keep it up. And we should be encouraged to remember that the promiscuous dispensation of clemency is not a sign of political liberality. It is instead one of those valuable, identifying marks of tyranny.
Charles Krauthammer