Remedies for over-grading by dealers

What are the best remedies for dealing with currency sellers who hold themselves out as experts and then will not stand behind what they sell? You buy notes trusting the expertise of a dealer and each of the notes grades significantly below what they claim them to be at PCGS currency or PMG.

This is a major consumer rights issue. What do you do in cases like this? PCGS and PMG are supposed to protect us against inaccurate and loose grading, but with uncertified notes what steps do you take to support your rights?

Comments

  • numbersmannumbersman Posts: 937 ✭✭✭

    The answer is simple....make sure you have the right to return, in writing, before you lay down your money.Communication is the key.As a collector who is now a dealer (and still a collector) I make sure that a potential buyer feels comfortable with his/her purchase.Certainly there are limitations...for example...if you send a note to be graded and much time has passed....that may be unreasonable to some.Again,if your intent is to buy and get the note graded just ask the seller to get it graded for you and, if all comes out as expected/advertised, you will cover the costs of grading and the shipping (which you would have had to pay anyway).Keep in mind, with that scenario, if the grading comes back better than expected(that has happened to me several times) the dealer may want to then alter the deal....it's a risk you take.Any reputable dealer should have no issue with reasonable requests....especially if there's big money involved.I have had several deals where I offered a 364 day return.....just sayin'.

    Collector of numeral seals.That's the 1928 and 1928A series of FRNs with a number rather than a letter in the district seal. Owner/operator of Bottom Line Currency
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have never known a dealer who was willing to send material in as a condition of the sale; if the note(s) or coins come back in lower or problem grades they will get upset; they are usually looking for quick cash. I like the philosophical and debate aspects of numismatics, not so much the business aspects. Most dealers don't like their expertise questioned either.

  • 2ndCharter2ndCharter Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭

    _What are the best remedies for dealing with currency sellers who hold themselves out as experts and then will not stand behind what they sell?___

    Easy - don't buy from them. There are plenty of other options out there.

  • numbersmannumbersman Posts: 937 ✭✭✭

    You are working with the wrong dealers.....period.I have made at least 10 deals over the last few years that were pending based on me,or the buyer, getting the note graded.....and if I have any "expertise" at all I would have no fear.I've even done that at a show where the buyer could physically examine the note but was still unsure. The last example I can provide is a beautiful 1886 $1 Martha,sold at the FUN last January.I claimed the note was a high end XF all the way.The buyer asked if he could take the note over to one of the grading companies and get it graded to insure the grade.He wrote me a check for the note with a handshake agreement that he could return it if it graded less than advertised........it came back AU (53Q if memory serves)! Again,you are working with the wrong dealers.I don't know what you are buying but please ask me if I have it next time you are ready to buy.

    Collector of numeral seals.That's the 1928 and 1928A series of FRNs with a number rather than a letter in the district seal. Owner/operator of Bottom Line Currency
  • I think a lot of dealers push the grade on raw notes. Moreover, when they are buying, they will try to buy it based on a lower grade than they sell it as. So, in addition to making a buy / sell spread, they will make a grade spread too or at least try to.

    How much does it cost to get a note graded that would retail for $500 or less and you are a low volume or even a one-off customer? How much do grading fees escalate as a function of the value of the note? I've bought quite a few graded notes but have never actually sent one in for grading.

  • tomtomtomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 275 ✭✭✭

    @Boomer5070 said:

    How much does it cost to get a note graded that would retail for $500 or less and you are a low volume or even a one-off customer? How much do grading fees escalate as a function of the value of the note? I've bought quite a few graded notes but have never actually sent one in for grading.

    https://www.pmgnotes.com/submit/services-fees/
    https://www.pcgscurrency.com/pricing.html

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2018 3:47AM

    Also there are dealers who disagree with the grading results and realize that PMG will probably grade it the same in the future based on their internal records of serial numbers, so they sell the notes "undergraded" raw. I heard PCGS will look at a note "fresh", so there is that option if you want to resubmit, but probably the same verdict or similar at both. Less a subjective grading system than a little wiggle room. The top grading services know what they are doing and have high tech analysis equipment.

  • numbersmannumbersman Posts: 937 ✭✭✭

    As to cost....don't forget shipping, both ways.For example a $500 note sent to PMG Priority mail is $6.80 and the return shipping will be Registered mail insured for $20(according to their submission forms) so add $27 bucks to the grading fee.Of course, that's one example.With more notes the shipping cost can be more but spread out reducing the per note cost.Example....send in 5 notes at $500 each...the same $6.80 (if you're okay with no insurance and not sending registered) and now, with the value of a total of $2500 in notes the return shipping will be $25.So a new total shipping would be $32 or about $6 per note.One must keep all costs in mind.

    Collector of numeral seals.That's the 1928 and 1928A series of FRNs with a number rather than a letter in the district seal. Owner/operator of Bottom Line Currency
  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 837 ✭✭✭✭

    Only buy graded notes.

    thefinn
  • 2ndCharter2ndCharter Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭

    Only buy graded notes.

    As a collector of Nationals, if I followed that advice, I would buy hardly anything.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 3,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2018 2:31PM

    A lot of these "o> @2ndCharter said:

    Only buy graded notes.

    As a collector of Nationals, if I followed that advice, I would buy hardly anything.

    I agree; the problem is what are the work arounds on these raw notes, as well as questionably certified notes, carry an led or black light and try to identify all problems? I recently ran a note graded by a questionable grading company by some seasoned experts, they used an led and they didn't see the problem which PCGS currency did.

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